What do you believe and why do you believe it?

You can't seem to get away from that "think" as the basis for your reality - Again, you may begin there if you want - but it will lead you to disastrous results in the end - I am warning you!

The point is that Hellfire and Damnation is not an act of love. Love may fail to draw you for a while but it never rejects completely. Your God is like someone holding a gun to my head shouting "Don't make me shoot you!"
If God pulls the trigger and puts a bullet between my eyes, you cannot say I committed suicide.

You have just described most people’s understanding of God. I am quite content in that many do not believe in the true God, creator/owner of the whole earth and all its contents. God is simply not dealing with some people yet. He will deal with everyone in His time. You too.

It is not our job to evangelize the world. Scripture says the Gospel is to be preached throughout the world as a witness: Matt. 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” A witness can be for you or against you.

God is not the Great speed cop in the sky, ready to swat you for your sins. When saved He will not even remember our sins: Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”


Read this carefully, and tell me if the stone could have already been rolled back: Matt. 28:2 “And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.” One Angel was sitting on it at a later time, and the other angel not mentioned.


Luke 24:4 “And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:” There are your two angels, earthquake not mentioned.


John 20:1 “The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.” Only one Mary mentioned, earthquake not mentioned; common in third person narrative. Where is the problem?


He does love us, but our sin will kill us. Nobody will live in flames forever. The hell you are describing is a middle-age myth. The wages of sin is death (see Romans 6:23). The soul that sins, will die: Eze. 18:20a “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” The everlasting life in flames will not happen to anybody/anything. Hint: Think memorials.

And yet at least one Christian on this site (TLC) has threatened me with a lake of fire, which he could probably justify from another Bible verse. The 2 main problems with the Easter Challenge are:
The Earthquake that Matthew reported and the others didn't (I find this ridiculous).
The differing numbers of angels / men in shining garments (either 1 or 2). What are angels anyway? Has anyone on this site ever seen one?

Rather than focus on what you perceive are discrepancies in the narrative, why don't you focus on what is consistent …

All four gospels indicate the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.

All four gospels indicate the Lord Jesus Christ appeared in His resurrected body.


I could take the time and go through the records and remark on your perceived "inconsistencies". Would you then believe? Or would you further harden your heart and find some other "inconsistency" which would cause you to continue on your path away from God?

just asking because I took the time to show you there was no inconsistency in the field of blood issue and you now agree there were two purchases ... not that you have come to faith in God, you just "would not use that example in future to demonstrate a Biblical inconsistency".

I took the time to show you there was no inconsistency between Matthew/Mark "six days" and Luke "about eight days" and you're still "Not really convinced that there's no inconsistency" ... even to the point of stating "The God of the Bible comes across as inept and bungling sometimes”.

You need to figure out what you want out of this life. Do you want to continue to deny the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein or do you want to turn to the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein and start on the path where He will personally reveal Himself to you? You will never be disappointed in your walk with God. It's not all smooth sailing. There will be times of calm and peace and there are rough patches you'll go through — times where you will disappoint yourself and/or others will disappoint you ... but one thing's for sure ... it won't be God Who disappoints you.


In your OP, you indicated "I like to challenge my beliefs" .

Is it your intent to turn TO God and seek Him?

Is it your intent to turn others FROM God?

again ... just askin' ...

No one here is scared of you! Your arguments eventually begin to sound rather hollow and monotonous. The administrators here know very well what the Good News is: and it is not that you are going to be too busy to answer for the next week.

I’m familiar with the supposed discrepancies in the resurrection account. Read all the accounts believing taking every word exactly as written and you will come up with three witnesses present at the tomb.

You keep playing logic games with us. Even if for some reason you believed that Satan is good, it was God's Word the Holy Bible that told you about satan in the first place, meaning that God also exists. And if he exists then the Bible testifies to His Goodness. Who does the devil want to nail to a cross? You or himself? But God would rather experience this suffering himself so you don't have to. But the devil, being himself, wants this holy sacrifice to be of no effect on you, so you will suffer anyway. However smart you think your are, the devil is always smarter. Only God is smarter than the devil, so only God can save. It is the devil's game to confuse you with complex logic so you won't see the truth from God.

No. Our God is holding the syringe filled with the Cure so that we DON'T go to hell.

That syringe is filled with His Blood in the form of His Son Jesus Christ. How is it HIS fault if you reject the ONLY Cure?

He died for YOU! What more do you want from Him?

I'm not trying to frighten you. Unless you believe that challenging or testing your most cherished beliefs is frightening? Maybe it is? It depends on how much personal investment you've made in those beliefs. This was something I discovered when I was deconverting. Evidently, my arguments or counter-claims are so hollow and monotonous that you keep on debating with me....

In reading this I see some good news and some bad news. The good news is you are still among the land of the living which means therefore choices are still your inherent right so choose wisely. Now your bad news. There is no such person as an atheist (Her: 8) all know there is a God , again Her 8, question is will you bow to Him or not? Again choose wisely.

Now for the 3rd and 4th trips::

Trip 3 - John 2O

Who went;

Mary Magdalene alone.

When;

"The first day of the week . . . early, when it is yet dark' (John 20:1).

Purpose;

To settle her own confusion brought on by what all she had seen and the disciples strong response toward her.

What happened;

Mary, upon her return, sees that the stone is indeed rolled away from the opening of the sepluchre. Determined to settle what is going on, she returns this time to find "Peter and the other disciple" and because they did not believe her first report, she tells them a new report "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid Him" (John 20:2).

Response of the disciples to Mary's new report;

"Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. So they both ran together: and the other did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. And stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, and the napkin, that was about His head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together just as it had been wrapped about Jesus' head) in a place by itself. Then went in that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed." But what was it they believed?

They did not believe the first report of Jesus' resurrection, but they did believe this second report that His body was stolen. "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. Then the disciples went away again unto their own home" (John 20:3-10).

How Mary's crisis was settled;

Peter and John's belief that the body of Jesus had been stolen offered no comfort to Mary. She had seen angels and heard their glorious report of Jesus' resurrection and yet nobody believed her. Now in despair, she questions all she had seen and heard.

Having been left by the two disciples, "Mary stood without the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, and seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain"

"And they said unto her, 'Woman, why weepest thou?"' The angels (knowing that Mary had been told by them, or other angels, that Jesus had risen) did not understand Mary's sorrow. She saith unto them, 'Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid Him."' This statement clearly reveals how the disciples lack of faith had virtually destroyed Mary's own. Fortunately the Author and Finisher of her faith was jealous for her.

"And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus said unto her, 'Woman, why weepest thou?' She supposing Him to be the gardener, saith unto Him, 'Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, 'tell me where thou hast laid him. and I will take him away."'

Poor Mary, her hope was so crushed by the disciples ridicule and lack of faith, that now she too, regardless of the angelic reports, believes Jesus to be still dead. "Jesus saith unto her, 'Mary.' She turned herself, and saith unto Him, 'Rabboni" which is to say, 'Master"' (John 20:11-16).

How comforting it must have been to hear that voice of love speak her name again. A voice which she, (being one of His sheep,) had come to know and trust. All Jesus said was her name and her faith was restored. Oh if we would only listen when Jesus calls us by name, what healing power His voice could have for us!

Trip 4 - Mark 16

When;

"And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came to the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. "The fact that the sun was coming up makes this the latest trip recorded.

Who went;

Having already been confronted by the disbelief of the disciples Mary Magdalene now goes and finds Mary the mother of James and Salome, and other women. Instead of telling all of them about Jesus' resurrection and risk being ridiculed by these other women as well, remained silent. They continue with their plans to take the herbs, which they had purchased after Passover, and go to anoint the body of Jesus.


And as they went "they said among themselves, 'Who shall roll away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?"' It was probably the two Mary's asking this question of the other women. Like most people with a secret, they had a hard time keeping this one to themselves. So while not talking about what all they had seen earlier, they talk about what they know will be the first sign of Jesus' resurrection that the other women will see.

"And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment: and they were affrighted."

Notice how here in Mark's account there is only "one young man" here and not "two angels?" Wouldn't it be amazing if instead of this being an angel, it was actually the thief on the cross next to Jesus? I'm not saying it was, but who can say it was not? The scriptures make the point how this "one young man" was clothe in a "long white garment." It is white raiment represents the righteousness of the saints and what better garment for the one who by faith stood by Jesus at the end? What better reward than to be one of those privileged to declare His resurrection?

Does not Matthew tell us, "And the graves were open: and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the grave after His resurrection, and went and appeared unto many?"

Who can affirm or refute as to whether this "one young man" in a "long white garment" was the thief that acknowledge Christ or an angel? Certainly not I.

"And he saith unto them, 'Be not affrighted: ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: He is risen; He is not here: behold the place where they had lain Him."

This reference to Jesus as being "of Nazareth" is the way the people referred to one another back then. Like "Paul of Tarsus" or "Simon, a Cyrenian," or "Joseph of Arimathea," or "Mnason of Cyprus." Men identified men with where they came from. The angel in Matthew referred to Jesus as the "Lord." This by far is the most accurate account of Jesus, "Lord." To refer to Jesus as being from Nazareth is more the perspective of man than that of God or the angels. They know from whence He truly came.

"But go your way, [as you were previously told] and tell His disciples and Peter that He goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see Him, as He said unto you." And they went out quickly and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed; neither said they anything to any man; for they were afraid."

Can you imagine Mary Magdalene going back to try and tell the disciples again what they all saw? If it was the thief on the cross, can you see her telling them that she saw the thief as well? "I saw the thief that was crucified with Jesus and he said Jesus is alive too!" I'm sure that would have gone over big.

Luke and John both mention how the women, then Mary, all told someone what they saw and heard, but not here. This time the encounter and message were not told "to any man: for they were afraid." Afraid of what? They told no one because they for "afraid" of greater ridicule. Had this young man clothed in white had been an angel, his angelic position would have perhaps obliged the women to go and tell. But if it was this "man," a condemned thief, what authority had he? Of course you and l, not in their situation, can readily see his authority as being of God. But put yourself in their position. Put yourself in Mary Magdalene's, after all she had been through. What would you do?

It was not until Sunday evening (before sunset because it is still the first day of the week) that Jesus appeared unto all the disciples "as they sat at meat." Then Jesus rebuked them for "their unbelief (lack of faith) and hardness of heart (lack of compassion on the women), BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED NOT THEM WHICH HAD SEEN HIM AFTER HE HAD RISEN!

Please, do not be as they were, slow to believe all that the scriptures tell you. It truly is as Jesus said unto Thomas, "Because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they which have not seen, and yet have believed" (John 20:29). Therefore I pray you too may be blessed for your belief in His resurrection.

In light of the fact the Jesus' resurrection took place on the Sabbath, and not Sunday morning, (as most have been taught), one would do well to reconsider the teaching of Sunday being the new "Christian Sabbath." This teaching is founded upon the assumption that Sunday is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Yet if that's not true, then the foundation for a new "Christian Sabbath" is one of sand and not stone.

Isaiah prophesying of the Lord's judgement said, "Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and turneth it upside down . . . because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, [thus] broken the everlasting covenant (Isaiah 24:1-5).

Notice "laws" is plural and "ordinance" is singular. Of all the Ten Commandments there is only one ordinance given, "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy."

Jesus said, "Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven . . . Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock, (Matthew 7:21-27).

How do you know the Bible was written by an objective source outside of man? Provide your most compelling reason.

This is much more in-depth and much better than other people's explanations. I will give it a thorough read and get back to you.

This is so way off the mark, it's almost funny. No such person as an atheist? Atheism at its simplest is a single position on a single issue - that they don't currently believe in any God claim they have heard. I could say there's no such person as a deist or Christian and that you are all faking it. Would I be right? It's demonstrable twaddle and is simply a shifting of the burden of proof - a burden of proof which Christians fail to meet on a daily basis.

My intent is to be as honest as possible about this whole issue and to accept a reasonable rationale based on available evidence. I want to follow the evidence not lead it. To paraphrase Hume, a wise person apportions their belief to the evidence.

Testing and trying to find fault with a claim is the best way of determining whether it is true or likely to be true. It's the scientific method of falsification which stems from Socratic reasoning. If the claim can withstand falsification for a long time, then we can have greater confidence in it. If it can't withstand scrutiny and it's full of plot holes then it's usually rubbish.

The 2 main problems with the Easter Challenge are:
The Earthquake that Matthew reported and the others didn't (I find this ridiculous).
The differing numbers of angels / men in shining garments (either 1 or 2). What are angels anyway? Has anyone on this site ever seen one?

I find this ridiculous

I originally posted this message in the New Member Intro section but a member said I should post it here. So here goes...

Colloquially speaking I am an agnostic as I don't know whether or not a god exists. Technically I am an atheist as I don't believe any god claim I have heard. Although I used to be a Christian. I was brought up in the Church of England but properly self-identified as a Christian in my twenties and believed I was saved. I had my doubts after several months as a result of speaking to atheists and ex-Christians. Some things in the Bible stopped making sense to me. Some of the Bible was immoral, some of it was inconsistent and some of it was not credible. I prayed for answers but no answers came. I now consider myself to be an ex-Christian. Every so often I like to challenge my beliefs as I think it is healthy. In that spirit I would like to ask all Christians here what do you believe and why do you believe it?