Is Civil Disobedience ever Justified Biblically?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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Then you do not know your history. Taxes was only 1 of many greivences. The Declaration of Independence states a long list of grievances.
Plus the personal writings of those who was there speak of the horrible acts that began to take place. The actual abolitionist movement began before America was even independent but the King forced them to stop and to keep the slave trade.
They all felt justified so either their view of scripture was wrong or maybe in some circumstances by divine timing God acts to bring groups of people out of their metaphorical slavery in Egypt and the greatest army on Earth is swept away through divine will and miracles.
Plus the personal writings of those who was there speak of the horrible acts that began to take place. The actual abolitionist movement began before America was even independent but the King forced them to stop and to keep the slave trade.
They all felt justified so either their view of scripture was wrong or maybe in some circumstances by divine timing God acts to bring groups of people out of their metaphorical slavery in Egypt and the greatest army on Earth is swept away through divine will and miracles.
When He rolls up His sleeves He ain't just putting on the ritz...
Couldn't resist
Couldn't resist
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When I titled it civil disobedience of authority I was referring to civil government defined according to John Locke, a civil government is one who gives authority to the people over their government. He brought this out through his Two Treatises and especially in the second section. He started by arguments against Filmer’s assertion of the patriarchal system of authority (first treatise), where the leader is divinely ordained, the power over the people is absolute and the leadership is hereditary.
By arguing against these aspects as stated by Filmer, Locke described a civil government where people agreed on the leader through consent as required by natural justice. Locke asserted that having a leadership with absolute power creates an environment that can easily turn the people into slaves. He stated that people exist in a state of freedom and are bound to the limits established by the laws of nature.
This state gives them the power to exercise their own decisions and makes them equal with no subordination among them. However, in order to protect their freedoms the people come together to form a civil society by establishing a social contract with the government which in turn manages their affairs.
Thus a civil government’s authority is established through the consent of the people and is its leadership.
But when a government steps outside of its God ordained authority the founders saw every example in the Bible that God always raised up an army to overthrow tyrannical governments.
By arguing against these aspects as stated by Filmer, Locke described a civil government where people agreed on the leader through consent as required by natural justice. Locke asserted that having a leadership with absolute power creates an environment that can easily turn the people into slaves. He stated that people exist in a state of freedom and are bound to the limits established by the laws of nature.
This state gives them the power to exercise their own decisions and makes them equal with no subordination among them. However, in order to protect their freedoms the people come together to form a civil society by establishing a social contract with the government which in turn manages their affairs.
Thus a civil government’s authority is established through the consent of the people and is its leadership.
But when a government steps outside of its God ordained authority the founders saw every example in the Bible that God always raised up an army to overthrow tyrannical governments.
Depends on what history you read I think.
Theres two sides to every story. And things get lost in translation.
For my own country, I have an understanding of the treaty of Waitangi that seems completely different from someone elses understanding of it.
I was just reading today that some pakeha thought the treaty was about the British winning over the Maori and them surrendering their lands. BUt the maori thought they were signing something else...that they were in partnership with the British and the british were to be governed by the crown. At the time Queen Victoria. And not a bunch of lawless landgrabbers.
So yea. A treaty is an agreement, a covenant and a promise right? Later NZ did actually become independent but ist not a republic like america is.
I dont think they had any kind of treaty in america, and if they did it seems to have been broken loads of times. Plus what shameful way its treated indigneous americans. Who basically gifted the land to the newcomers, otherwise what is Thanksgving day all about?
Theres two sides to every story. And things get lost in translation.
For my own country, I have an understanding of the treaty of Waitangi that seems completely different from someone elses understanding of it.
I was just reading today that some pakeha thought the treaty was about the British winning over the Maori and them surrendering their lands. BUt the maori thought they were signing something else...that they were in partnership with the British and the british were to be governed by the crown. At the time Queen Victoria. And not a bunch of lawless landgrabbers.
So yea. A treaty is an agreement, a covenant and a promise right? Later NZ did actually become independent but ist not a republic like america is.
I dont think they had any kind of treaty in america, and if they did it seems to have been broken loads of times. Plus what shameful way its treated indigneous americans. Who basically gifted the land to the newcomers, otherwise what is Thanksgving day all about?
History is hard to cover up for those who truly seek to uncover it. The facts and evidence are there in less you live in authoritarian government that has burned or censored everything then you probably wont know the truth in history.
Here in America we have abundant resources and evidence about the past that if studied you know who is lying and who isnt.
Quote:
"I dont think they had any kind of treaty in america, and if they did it seems to have been broken loads of times. Plus what shameful way its treated indigneous americans. Who basically gifted the land to the newcomers, otherwise what is Thanksgving day all about?"
Who is they? And how does this relate to the topic? But anyways I will still shed some light on that thought also.
Who is they? They the Europeans as a whole? The Pilgrims? The puritans? The Jamestown settlers?
What treaties was in place and who broke it? Did Europeans buy land from the natives or did that just take it? What exactly was Thanksgiving about?
All of this is rich in detail so I will just simplify it to get the mind thinking of a different perspective.
To say all Europeans isnt accurate to judge every situation. For example the Pilgrims and Puritans who majorly practiced their faith had good relations with the Indians and longest lasting peace treaty until the Indian chiefs sone decades later decided to break it due to the influence of Christianity on his people who was converting to Christianity. The Pilgrims was also where the first Thanksgiving took place.
Jamestown on the other hand almost died out due to their my King rules everything mindset.
Vice versa it would be unrealistic to think of the indigenous people as a whole also. Because they had territories, tribes, both evil and good, both enslavement and murder, both genocide and war. The fallen humanity of sin affected them just as the Europeans. We should judge then based on the individual actions of each tribe, each circumstance and time period.
Europeans often fought alongside other peaceful tribes to rid of the evil hostile tribes. But even if we was to ignore that and say well they took their land. I must ask. Hasn't every kingdom, territory, nation been taken from others by every race or ethnic group in history. Didn't God command the Israelites or even allowed pagan nations to take over other nations? Could it be possible that the Indians was sinful and through God's judgment he used the Europeans to bring Jesus Christ?
Summary: So many variables to factor in but at the conclusion we must judge the actions of the Individual or group before accurately saying either A all was evil or B all was peaceful.
Here in America we have abundant resources and evidence about the past that if studied you know who is lying and who isnt.
Quote:
"I dont think they had any kind of treaty in america, and if they did it seems to have been broken loads of times. Plus what shameful way its treated indigneous americans. Who basically gifted the land to the newcomers, otherwise what is Thanksgving day all about?"
Who is they? And how does this relate to the topic? But anyways I will still shed some light on that thought also.
Who is they? They the Europeans as a whole? The Pilgrims? The puritans? The Jamestown settlers?
What treaties was in place and who broke it? Did Europeans buy land from the natives or did that just take it? What exactly was Thanksgiving about?
All of this is rich in detail so I will just simplify it to get the mind thinking of a different perspective.
To say all Europeans isnt accurate to judge every situation. For example the Pilgrims and Puritans who majorly practiced their faith had good relations with the Indians and longest lasting peace treaty until the Indian chiefs sone decades later decided to break it due to the influence of Christianity on his people who was converting to Christianity. The Pilgrims was also where the first Thanksgiving took place.
Jamestown on the other hand almost died out due to their my King rules everything mindset.
Vice versa it would be unrealistic to think of the indigenous people as a whole also. Because they had territories, tribes, both evil and good, both enslavement and murder, both genocide and war. The fallen humanity of sin affected them just as the Europeans. We should judge then based on the individual actions of each tribe, each circumstance and time period.
Europeans often fought alongside other peaceful tribes to rid of the evil hostile tribes. But even if we was to ignore that and say well they took their land. I must ask. Hasn't every kingdom, territory, nation been taken from others by every race or ethnic group in history. Didn't God command the Israelites or even allowed pagan nations to take over other nations? Could it be possible that the Indians was sinful and through God's judgment he used the Europeans to bring Jesus Christ?
Summary: So many variables to factor in but at the conclusion we must judge the actions of the Individual or group before accurately saying either A all was evil or B all was peaceful.
If one is a REAL Christian, then of course they know that God's Word/Commands come FIRST!!!
1 John 5:19 (NIV)
19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
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after 'conversion' as a True Christian, The Holy Spirit reveals to us the most awful ways of this fallen-world,
and what our duties are to be from then on in it!
we will above all else that we have ever known, follow Him in His Light/Footsteps, and become a member
of His Holy family that He expects us to be, at any cost, of life-limb-family-friends-$!...
and what our duties are to be from then on in it!
we will above all else that we have ever known, follow Him in His Light/Footsteps, and become a member
of His Holy family that He expects us to be, at any cost, of life-limb-family-friends-$!...