Was Lot a carnal christian or unbeliever

well I just reread the account again in Gen 19 and it seems Lot was reluctant because he asked the angels to spare a certain city that was near Sodom...Zoar...so Lot went there

and then we have this:

29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

so the destruction put fear into Lot and he left Zoar as well

but in v. 29 it states God basically did a favor for Abraham by having Lot 'rescued'

sounds like intercessory prayer on behalf of one person for a person...and I guess someone might consider if that was comparable to Christ taking our place?

let's face it. God sends His wrath on all sinners at some point and will again in the future

so much to consider

What can be said about lots frame of mind

He did not want to leave a city causing him spiritual pain, and he did not want to go to the mountains (basically back to the way abraham lived) but begged to be moved to another city,

don't make me do all the work

well I would think he was double minded to say the least

Amen

He did not trust gods provision, he love the city life, so he asked to be sent to another city. His true desire however, was to continue to live in Sodom, ther are som to think he was a city councilman there (as he was by the gate doing what they would do, and welcome people) so he actually had what alot of men desire and that is som sort of power, but we see from the way the people spoke to him when they wanted to rape the two angles what they really though, which is another principle we can learn from

Explain

I had just signed out then thought what you wrote above (green)

he trusted in his possessions, possibly status...as he was sitting at the city gate ususally reserved for elders or those with position I think....haha...now I see what you wrote about the gate so yeah...

basically he was rooted in the world and not in God

well we agree it seems

oh happy day

I'll let Paul explain it. Before we are born again, we have a single personality, and that is carnal, but when we are born again and God has given us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we then have a dual personality because we still carry the baggage of our carnal nature as Paul explains in Romans 7:14-25.

I want to look at all points, even the bad points, what kind of moral person was lot personally (not just spiritually)

Ok, this says we still have a carnal nature, but not that we are all carnal, i would not agree,

You failed to give a reference scripture for your disagreement. You can never understand THE GRACE OF GOD until you understand THE DEPRAVITY OF MAN. Paul says in Romans 7:25 that he still, with his fleshly nature, serves the law of sin. We are no better than Paul.

Curious to hear responses. Lets look at lots life.

Lot was not a *Christian* technically.

But Lot was deemed to be righteous by God on the basis of imputed righteousness. Just like Abraham believed God, Lot must have believed God. However, he was not a servant of God, but chose the fertile land of Sodom and Gomorrah knowing full well that these were very wicked cities.

I have no desire to get into a calvinist debate

If you are to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught, then all scriptures must harmonize. Have you discarded some scriptures that you can not interpret? I thought this forum was established for the purpose of discussing the scriptures that we might better understand the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught. Is not this the will of everyone on this forum to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught?

This thread is not about fatalism

Please stick to the topic.

The bible tells believers not to be carnally minded, it means a believer can not be carnal.

Thats all i will say about what you are trying to suggest that all believers are carnal, that is just not so

I do not understand what you are so upset with me about, all I did was ask you to explain what Paul said in Romans.

This thread is not about fatalism

Please stick to the topic.

The bible tells believers not to be carnally minded, it means a believer can not be carnal.

Thats all i will say about what you are trying to suggest that all believers are carnal, that is just not so

If a believer cannot be carnally minded, why would be the purpose of giving them a warning not to be carnally minded?

Did i say a believer can not be carnally minded?

You seem to have forgotten our whole disagreement