Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I can see you are very confused.

Let's just talk about the difference between rest and work.

Rest is ceasing from work, right?


Well the Lord doesn't cause us to cease from all work. Just the work that is too hard for us. Trying to be righteous by the law. That's why He says "you who are burdened and heavily laden".

Once we turn away from our work at the law and turn to Christ and His Rest then we can be the workmanship of God.

Then we can work doing Gods Will and not our own.
we can look at it another way

work i what we do to earn a wage or reward,

rest is when we do stuff because we love to do it

ie, some bowl to be the best and are aways striving for that

some bowl for fun, and not really worried about how good or bad they bowl. they just bowl and hope they get better (which by practice they should)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What? Wow.

OK here we go:

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

the law and the prophets are mentioned.

The most prophesied thing in the old testament is Jesus 2nd coming.
His 2nd coming?

I think you better read it again a few more times. The most prophesied thing in the old Testament is the coming of Jesus Christ.

The first one. The one where He died, was buried and then resurrected.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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The law of Moses.

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

According to Gods command to moses that all the people must confirm this command, Is this not perfection?

And if it is (which I believe it is)

then who has fulfilled this requirement of the law?
Jesus followed the law perfectly to show us how it was done. We couldn't do it because the "spirit" was missing. It isn't anymore.
What I don't understand is why the Law of the Kingdom, the one Jesus left us, that brings us forgiveness, the law that does what the law of Moses couldn't, isn't the law that is promoted whenever possible. Why bring up "must follow all if follow one" when that is no longer valid seeing through the blood of infinite value that was shed for us brings us forgiveness?? That is like saying sin can not be forgiven. Every time the law of given Moses is put forth as binding to us is like saying the work of Jesus didn't do what it was supposed to do.
We no longer need to be perfect under the law. Jesus shed His blood and gave us forgiveness. Why is it, if the law of Moses would have worked, had the people had the "spirit" within them to follow it, if people have been given the spirit now, A GIFT FROM GOD, is the law being put forth as "bad", STILL, when the law is was and always will be glorious and good, and it is "sin" that is bad? I don't understand this willingness to constantly promote ALL THE BAD PARTS OF the law of Moses, ABOVE the law OF GRACE, that took away ALL THAT WAS CONTRARY TO US OF THAT LAW.

There is no more curse, is there? Jesus hanging on the cross to away the curse so anyone who says anyone is under the curse is once again denying Christ aren't they?
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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I am confused

It says whoever does not obey shall not see life.

It this not salvation? that we are made alive?
Since they are the words of Jesus, I think it important to seek to understand this and all of His words. I assume you are fishing for a reason to call me "justified by works" But whatever it means, it's important. IMO the best way is to take everything Jesus says and then begin to form doctrine...

I think this is a good companion verses (one of many)

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My Word he shall never see death at all.”

If you want to accus someone, maybe you do maybe you dont and were honestly asking, I would say lets togather dwell on Jesus words and go from there. JMO.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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You seem to have forgotten where this got started.

The context is the law of Moses, NOT prophecy or was I missing something?
Definitly missing something: "the Law or the Prophets"

Ignore "the prophets" part and you are missing something.

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

And this passage further explains it;

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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So, you are not doing what you believe Jesus wants us to do.
LOL. I see you BOLDED "no I do not" and must have ignored this part of my post:

The principle of God's law are not taught in these places. Back in Jesus day they did still teach God's law, but they also taught their own tradition.

With that said, anyone who teaches God's law, Jesus words, prophecies yes I will hear .
Even if a pharisee teaches God;s law (correctly) yes I will listen as I stated in my post. BUt you chose a few words of my post and ignored the rest.

No I do not. The principle of God's law are not taught in these places. Back in Jesus day they did still teach God's law, but they also taught their own tradition.

Just like every church I have even been to, they tech Jesus but each one also has their own man made customs too.

With that said, anyone who teaches God's law, Jesus words, prophecies yes I will hear them out for sure. It is up to me to submit to the holy Spirit and discern what is true and what is not.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What does that have to do with having the laws of God written on my heart to do them?
The Laws of God are written on our hearts.

Not the Commandments of God.

Its a big difference and one you are blind to.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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its up for all to do this

it is also up for us all not to assume we know all truth, and we may not be wrong.
I agree, and I myself the more I learn the more I realize there is much more for me still to learn. In my experience the ppl who think they have everything 100% are the ppl who are the farthest from the truth. I am not tlking about ppl that know the word well, Im talking about ppl who think they knoew everything 100% and will not accept any verses that does not fit their already decided doctrine.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What you keep saying over and over and over is that the law brings "US" to Christ.

Then what happens to that "US"?

(2Co 5:17 KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(Gal 2:20 KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

"US" is gone, on the cross, dead, IF YE BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT!

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The "US" is gone EG, but the NEW CREATION is alive "in Christ" and is not "Under The Law" but is in unison with it!

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Ye, being the NEW CREATION. You keep speaking of only "US"/the old man. You need to become that "NEW CREATION" and it will all then make sense, because the "US" the "Old Man" is carnally minded and cannot comprehend the things I am talking about;

(Rom 8:4 KJV) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5 KJV) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6 KJV) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7 KJV) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8 KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9 KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I care about you EG, I want for you what Yahshua died to bring you into.


SG
You missed the most important verse FOR YOU in Romans 8

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

How come you don't know this is the Yoke of Bondage, the Ministration of Death, the 10 commandments?
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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Yes He did.

Just two small problems. You are not Christ.

And you are not perfect.


So you must rely on His Strength and not your own. Just like all the Christians before you. Just like Paul explains in all of his epistles.
What! SO where did I say I was Christ or perfect? Or that I rely on my own strength?

Seems like you are falsely making accusations that have no foundation in reality to me.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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His 2nd coming?

I think you better read it again a few more times. The most prophesied thing in the old Testament is the coming of Jesus Christ.

The first one. The one where He died, was buried and then resurrected.
I disagree, because anytime it talks about the "day of the Lord" that is also Jesus 2nd coming, However one thing is for certian., ,Jesus is the most prophesied in the OT 1st and 2nd coming.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Well, NO! They are one in the same! :D
They CAN'T be.

The Ministration of Death and Condemnation is written on the believers Heart when they come to Christ?

The Law of sin and death is written on the believers Heart when they come to Christ?


No. Of course not.

It is the Ministration of Righteousness that is written on our Hearts when we come to Christ.

It is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that is written on our Hearts when we come to Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus followed the law perfectly to show us how it was done.
No he did it because that is who he is, and also did it so he could be our sacrifice.

We couldn't do it because the "spirit" was missing. It isn't anymore.
What I don't understand is why the Law of the Kingdom, the one Jesus left us, that brings us forgiveness, the law that does what the law of Moses couldn't, isn't the law that is promoted whenever possible. Why bring up "must follow all if follow one" when that is no longer valid seeing through the blood of infinite value that was shed for us brings us forgiveness?? That is like saying sin can not be forgiven. Every time the law of given Moses is put forth as binding to us is like saying the work of Jesus didn't do what it was supposed to do.
We no longer need to be perfect under the law. Jesus shed His blood and gave us forgiveness. Why is it, if the law of Moses would have worked, had the people had the "spirit" within them to follow it, if people have been given the spirit now, A GIFT FROM GOD, is the law being put forth as "bad", STILL, when the law is was and always will be glorious and good, and it is "sin" that is bad? I don't understand this willingness to constantly promote ALL THE BAD PARTS OF the law of Moses, ABOVE the law OF GRACE, that took away ALL THAT WAS CONTRARY TO US OF THAT LAW.

There is no more curse, is there? Jesus hanging on the cross to away the curse so anyone who says anyone is under the curse is once again denying Christ aren't they?
Your riht there is no more curse

But the law still bring that curse, that was its intended purpose, how else would we know we needed salvation

Its like saying the law which proves my guilt and shows my need for salvation and the means of salvation (sacrifice of an unspotted or perfect lamb) can somehow show me how to live my life. How? All it can do at beat is continue to show me how i fail, or i have to water it down to make it appear i am following it (what the jews did)

Neither case is profitable for any child of god
 
May 1, 2019
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What! SO where did I say I was Christ or perfect? Or that I rely on my own strength?

Seems like you are falsely making accusations that have no foundation in reality to me.
I wonder if it is some form or technique to change the subject to get away from a difficult subject?

SG
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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Yes,

And a dangerous oversimplification. If that were all there were to it then why Matthew chapter 5? Or the wisdom and examples of Psalms and Proverbs? Or the Parables? Or the warnings and promises and admonitions of Revelations, or the examples of the Corinthians and Galatians, or the numerous admonitions of Paul or John or Peter or James and so on. All parts of the teachings and demonstrations of New Creatures working out their salvation with fear and trembling, every single one of them upholding the Laws of God, not hanging their hopes on two verses, while those two verses point to the entire word of God with the hopes of making our walk richer and more lovely than a fleshly mechanical attempt to purchase something that is given freely to those who will die to the flesh.

SG
It is supposed to be simple.

1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
What! SO where did I say I was Christ or perfect? Or that I rely on my own strength?

Seems like you are falsely making accusations that have no foundation in reality to me.
Did I say you were Christ?

Did I say you were perfect?

Did I say you must rely on your own strength?


Those weren't false accusations. They were statements of fact.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Since they are the words of Jesus, I think it important to seek to understand this and all of His words. I assume you are fishing for a reason to call me "justified by works" But whatever it means, it's important. IMO the best way is to take everything Jesus says and then begin to form doctrine...
If you assume this, you can never understand what i am saying and why, and we will never find common ground, because you will always be looking for something to point out that you deem to be in error, instead of trying to listen with an open heart to what i am saying this usually leads to miscommunication and false accusation or understanding of what people believe


I think this is a good companion verses (one of many)

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My Word he shall never see death at all.”

If you want to accus someone, maybe you do maybe you dont and were honestly asking, I would say lets togather dwell on Jesus words and go from there. JMO.
I asked a question? Who said i was accusing?

Why are you being so defensive?

Lets go back to my question

The verse said whoever does not obey shall not see life

Since non of us are perfect, does that not show to us, that we need salvation?

As for john 8 you need to keep that in context.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Definitly missing something: "the Law or the Prophets"

Ignore "the prophets" part and you are missing something.

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

And this passage further explains it;

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"
Did jesus fulfill the law?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree, and I myself the more I learn the more I realize there is much more for me still to learn. In my experience the ppl who think they have everything 100% are the ppl who are the farthest from the truth. I am not tlking about ppl that know the word well, Im talking about ppl who think they knoew everything 100% and will not accept any verses that does not fit their already decided doctrine.
Amen

I think we have times where we think this also, and when we do about any passage, that is where we get into trouble