Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

You place too many points of discussion in the same post. Once I separated them so as to keep each post about a single point of discussion, but instead of responding to each post separately you grouped them together again into one post. If you want me to respond to ALL your posts please use different posts for different points of discussion.

I can respect that, I try to be somewhat fully explaining myself is why I do that. I will try to break them up and maybe if it is a long post quote it all and bold the part you are replying to also, because somethimes I feel I need to fully explin especially here onther peoples posts are in between a single idea .

Just what I figured. Thanks for helping to see what you really are about here.

I was responding to "I don't remember having said that you said that, but I am sure many law keepers say that animal sacrifice was replaced with the sacrifice of Jesus."

My response was to that.

Not sure what you think I was saying.

Never said any different. Since you have nothing within the context of Matt to refute what was shared; you now wish to move to Galatians?

Maybe here next? "And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." Gal 3:12

Whose Faith?

Greetings K,

I hope you are well.

SG

Where did Jesus say we are to keep the law?

Matthew 22:37-40, " 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Matthew 5:17-20, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:16-19, " 16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Luke 10:26-28, " 26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

John 12:48-50, " 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

John 14:21, “he who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

When I look for a Biblical truth - I look for clear straightforward wording: I do not see any of these verses saying we are to keep the law:
Matt. 22:37-40 - it says the law and the prophets hang on the two great commandments of love - it doesn't say to keep the law
Mat. 19:16-19 - These are Jesus' words to "a man" (the rich young ruler) - I think Jesus was questioning him to lead him to repentance. In verse 21 Jesus tells him to "go and sell what thou hast". This also was a statement for this man, and is not a command for all people for all time. In Biblical interpretation one must distinguish a command given to a person and one that is for all people for all time.
Luke 10:26-28 - Again instructions to a certain person - "an expert in the law" to show him his error - Jesus says - "Do this and you will live" - and the man gets nervous and tries to justify himself! Jesus knew he was not keeping all the Law - only in keeping all the Law could a man be justified.
John 12:48-50 - Amen! Agreed Jesus' words will judge men on the last day! (But this does not say we must keep the law?!)
John 14:21 - Amen - We need to keep and guard Jesus' commands - (But this does not say we must keep the law?!)
Rev. 22:14,15 - Amen - the one who keeps Jesus' commands will be blessed!

You are seeming to pull the concept that Jesus said we are to keep the Law from his answers to two specific people - but not everything that Jesus said to individual people is applicable to us today:
Examples: John 4:16 - Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. - to the Samaritan woman
Matt. 19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. Now there is a principle here of giving to others, but Jesus did not intend that all people for all time must sell all that they have. But this was this man needed to hear from Jesus.

Well I dont think keeping the law has ever justified a man, I think God's mercy was and is always a key factor in that also I posted more than 2 verses, but about those 2 verses I don't see anything Jesus ever said as not true. However you are entitled to your own view, in how you view and how you view the context, I respect that. Personally I think "keeping the law" just means not sinning. Not that we will be perfect but we should not sin as much as possible. Abide in Him!

John 14:15-17, " 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

I think this shows the law is not abolished (and the next)

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

This shows keeping and teaching the law is good

Matthew 5:17-20, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Clearly keeping His commands is love and the above showed the law is not done away, so it is God's law

John 14:21, “he who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”

This is Jesus saying:

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

Also Rev 12:17 and 14:12-13 show His people do keep God's law.

Revelation 12: 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!"

I agree completely that we should not sin as much as possible and abide in Him! Amen. But I don't see how you get that "keeping the law means not sinning"? To the Jews of the OT "keeping the law" meant keeping a very specific set of laws given by God in the Torah.


I agree that the Law is not abolished: it is fulfilled - that is not equivalent to abolished. But how do you get that from John 14:15? If you are equating Jesus "commandments" to the Law, I wonder how you got that idea?

Luke 16:16,17: The Law never becomes void - Amen - but that is very different than saying Jesus said we are to keep the law. Your statement that "keeping and teaching the law is good" may be correct in some situations, but that is different than saying Jesus said we are to keep the law.


It seems in this section you are equating "the law" to Jesus' commandments. These two are not the same. Compare the Sermon on the Mount and what Jesus said there to what the Law said. They are not the same.

When you say above "God's law" (in italics above) I am assuming you mean the OT law? Maybe I am not correct?

Well anyone that believes we should abide in Jesus the way He says I consider brother or sister, so hallelujah!

I equate the obedience to God's law with not sinning because;

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

I don't think the law is only for Jews of the OT. In the NT the law is written on the heart;

Hebrews 10:16-17, " 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” 17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

One all is not completely fulfilled;

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”

Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

"until heaven and earth pass away." has not yet happened, it happens here;

Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

"until all is accomplished." all is not yet accomplished/fulfilled;

This and the many many prophecies about Jesus return as the Lion are not yet fulfilled;

Daniel 7:13-14, " 13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. 14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

All these, plus

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

John 12:48-50, " 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

John 8:28-29, " 28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. 29 And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.”

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

Look at the question; "what is the great commandment in the Law" not the only and "On these two commandments depend all the Law"

Matthew 22:36-40, " 36 “Teacher, what is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

I posted a number of verses that I believe show we should, I won't re-post them to save room.

Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Yes God's law (Mal 4) but mediated by Jesus rather than levites (Heb 7)

I think Jesus maginified the law;

Isaiah 42:20-21, " 20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. 21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.

Matthew 23:23-24, " 23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

That is what I believe, with that said I think this is the bottom line;

John12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.” (see Duet 18:18-19 & Acts 3:22-23)

So I am reading this and thinking" ok, God is telling us to go out and teach. But there is nothing said about us as humans demanding others follow God's law. We teach and hope our words fall on good soil. But we should not make demands of others. God is the only being who can demand. And when man makes laws, it is a demand.

You can take comfort that the Law of Moses was never given to Gentiles, so it is silly for us who become Christians, to teach Gentiles to follow the Law of Moses.

Rather, we should follow instructions from our apostle, Paul, who gave us the only relevant Commission for us to follow, 2 Cor 5

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Notice Paul never instructed us to teach others to obey the law?

You quoted "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees you won't enter the Kingdom of God."

I showed that righteousness doesn't come by working at the law like the scribes and Pharisees did.

Righteousness comes by Faith in Christ.


So would you rather be righteous or would you rather work at the law?

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Those who work at the law DO NOT have righteousness. Your righteousness will not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees by doing what they did. Which is working at the law by their own understanding.


Righteousness is by Faith in Christ.


So you have to decide. Do you want to work at the law? Or do you want to be Righteous by Faith in Christ?


If you want your righteousness to exceed that of the scribes and pharisees you can't continue working at the law the way they did. You have to find REAL Righteousness which is only in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The Lord told us He would give us Rest from our work at the law. Peter tells us to not be led away with the error of the wicked. Which is the same error as the Pharisees. Working at the law in their OWN understanding and NOT coming to Christ in Faith.

Coming to Christ is where ALL of our blessings are. They are not in our understanding or our strength or our work at the law.

Oh! I get it now! One is allowed only "so much" righteousness in your eyes, and others like you, eh?
But, just as soon as one starts testifying and baring witness to things "born from above?"
This is considered being "Self Righteous", and therefore evil.
Even though it is "given" in love?
It is taken as being "self righteous."
By the way, isn't that what the scribes and pharasees constantly accused Our Lord and Savior as being?
As we read in the Bible, they were measuring Jesus with their "weights and measurements."
Elst, they would not have murdered Him! Right?

Never said anything about working at the Law.
You did not answer the question, Whose faith?

No? Actually it has ALWAYS been the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Through Abram/Abraham. Through Issac (NOT ishmael). Through Jacob/Israel. Through Moses and Aaron!
IN and THROUGH Jesus of Nazareth!
It's just that "the adversary" through the flesh, stays STUBBORNLY in the way!

well since on sin brings about the curse.

and we have all had many sins

guess there is no possibility of obedience concerning the law

you need to get it understood, obedience to god is NOT obedience to the law., you can not fulfill that standard, thats why you needed christ in the first place

never said that did I.

we are talking About obedience according to the law are we not?