Did John Calvin have Michael Servetus Executed?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#21
Both sides contended that they were in possession of proper theology :oops:

The real problem with Calvinism as I see it is that it promotes the idea that God will forever after punish those who refuse to make a choice that was never put before them. My understanding is that Jesus is drawing all to Him, and that the invitation is open to all, as a "whosoever will" believe. Yes, God draws and makes it possible, I do not contest that :)
He doesn't just make it possible. He elects certain individuals. Jesus atones for them on the Cross and actually purchases them. The Holy Spirit applies this atonement to them in space and time, and regenerates them.

Jesus didn't purchase anyone that he doesn't receive. He actually purchased them. They are his possession.

But, I'm sure we will get into that later.

By the way, anyone who believes is saved. However, only the elect believe. Because God regenerates them and gifts them with both faith and repentance.

It is the Father who draws, and all who are drawn are raised up at the last day (John 6:44). Therefore if someone isn't raised up, they weren't drawn by the Father. That is the reading of the verse.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#22
Both sides contended that they were in possession of proper theology :oops:

The real problem with Calvinism as I see it is that it promotes the idea that God will forever after punish those who refuse to make a choice that was never put before them. My understanding is that Jesus is drawing all to Him, and that the invitation is open to all, as a "whosoever will" believe. Yes, God draws and makes it possible, I do not contest that :)
Additionally, the atonement didn't just make it "possible". The atonement achieved the salvation of those he has purchased.

That's a major issue with the universal atonement view. The Bible teaches that those who are to be saved actually were purchased at the Cross, out of every tongue, tribe and nation. They are Jesus' possession. There's no "possible" about it. Their atonement was achieved.

That's why I hold to limited atonement. Because Jesus actually atoned for the sins of those who are purchased, who are the elect.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#23
Regarding the charge that Servetus was a homosexual:

At his trial, Servetus was condemned on two counts, for spreading and preaching Nontrinitarianism, specifically, Modalistic Monarchianism, or Sabellianism, and anti-paedobaptism (anti-infant baptism).[29] Of paedobaptism Servetus had said, "It is an invention of the devil, an infernal falsity for the destruction of all Christianity."[30] In the case the procureur général (chief public prosecutor) added some curious-sounding accusations in the form of inquiries—the most odd-sounding perhaps being, "whether he has married, and if he answers that he has not, he shall be asked why, in consideration of his age, he could refrain so long from marriage."[28] To this oblique imputation about his sexuality, Servetus replied that rupture (inguinal hernia) had long since made him incapable of that particular sin.

Regarding your articles, I would agree with the vast majority of it, but I don't think "Calvin burned Servetus" like Trueman claims.

It was the Geneva Council that executed him.

The rest seems accurate, though.

Ligonier Ministries is a sound organization, but I don't think it's accurate to attribute his death to Calvin specifically. Calvin was not the head of the Geneva Council who rendered the judgment.
Yes, my posted sources prior to this reply did say that the Council of Geneva elected to execute Michael Servetus. And that prior post showed why, which was related to John Calvin's theology.

Thank you for posting that proof that the charge of homosexuality did not pertain to Michael Servetus.
You were wrong to imply that it did. Do you repent of that false salacious charge against a man long dead and who suffered unto death in a horrific manner?
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#24
who cares? i dont know why this is brought up by anti-calvinists. attacking the person calvin does nothing against calvinism. who cares what he did. look at what moses and david did. even st.peter was cutting ear off mike tyson style with sword. wild people the hebrews you dont want to mess with them. look at what happened to the nations around israel when they try to attack in 1967? got destroyed by one small country and even lost land.

whatever calvin did doesnt matter for the reformed teachings
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,817
25,994
113
#25
Additionally, the atonement didn't just make it "possible". The atonement achieved the salvation of those he has purchased.

That's a major issue with the universal atonement view. The Bible teaches that those who are to be saved actually were purchased at the Cross, out of every tongue, tribe and nation. They are Jesus' possession. There's no "possible" about it. Their atonement was achieved.

That's why I hold to limited atonement. Because Jesus actually atoned for the sins of those who are purchased, who are the elect.
Possible in the sense that with God, all things are possible... not that it is a maybe ;)

 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#26
"Modalistic Monarchians believe in the deity of Jesus and understand Jesus to be a manifestation of Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament, in the flesh. "

if thats what michael servetus believed (can someone confirm?) i agree with him. God in the flesh it says in timothy. i also agree with him in baptism. unless he was one of those Jesus name only for baptism
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#27
One of the first things that a Reformed person will face is the false narrative of anti-Calvinists regarding Michael Servetus.

The story is told in various ways.

However, the common story is that John Calvin murdered Michael Servetus. Some claim that he used green wood to burn Servetus at the stake.

The reality is that Michael Servetus intentionally placed himself into the hands of the Geneva Council by traveling through Geneva, and attending church at John Calvin's services. He did this, knowing full well that he was a wanted man.

Servetus was a heretic. He did not believe in the Triune God and taught other false things. There is some indication that he was involved in homosexuality, as well.

Over the years, Servetus tried to convert Calvin to his false belief system. Calvin discussed proper theology with him, but Servetus rejected it. Servetus wrote several letters to Calvin, criticizing orthodox teachings. He made himself a major pain in the butt and could be characterized as a stalker.

Servetus was wanted by the Roman Catholics and in areas other than Switzerland, as well.

So, Servetus was bold enough to travel to Geneva, and to attend John Calvin's church. He was recognized and thrown in jail. During the time he was in jail, Calvin encouraged him to repent of his heresies on a number of occasions.

Letters were sent to various other districts, to garner their view on what should be done with Servetus. In the end, the council decided to execute him. Calvin asked them to behead Servetus, but instead they chose to burn him.

Now, this may sound bad to us, but the reality is that it was commonplace at that time to execute heretics. Christians thought they were the kingdom of God on earth, so the separation between state and church was not so clear.

Despite popular myth, Calvin did not have him burned with green wood so the suffering would last longer. This is the type of mythology that is popularized by rabid anti-Calvinists like Dave Hunt.

Here is an audio that will give some support for these remarks:

https://thefreedthinker.podbean.com...story-matters-calvin-and-the-servetus-affair/

Despite this defense of John Calvin, I find the entire matter to be irrelevant. Either the Bible backs up the principles of Reformed theology, or it does not.

However, I will clearly state that there are many anti-Reformed people on this site who perpetuate errors regarding facts like this. Certain sectors of Christianity play the "telephone game". There is a hodgepodge of error and lies and misrepresentations which form common Christian "knowledge".

I strongly encourage people to read volumes on church history and educate yourself. Don't believe the folklore that passes for Christian history on this site. 2000 Years of Christ's Power by Nick Needham would be a great place to start. There is also a history of Christianity by Justo Gonzales that is decent, but I don't think it's detailed enough.

Whatever church history volumes you read, make sure you check out the reviews on Amazon, and see if there's a significant number of people who question the authors' integrity. Like anything else, historians can be biased in their views, too.
What's a reformed person supposed to mean? Aren't we still Following Christ crucified and rise and risen propping his power over, sin, death and hell? Aren't the churches and teachings established by the apostle Paul still the model churches are supposed to follow? Calvinism sounds like unsound false doctrine to me. What happened to saved by grace through faith in Christ only? Works do not save or prove Salvation. Isn't agape love the first fruit of Salvation? And who cares about Michael Servetus? Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead." If the RCC was after him he's in good company. They replaced Ceaser
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#28
What's a reformed person supposed to mean? Aren't we still Following Christ crucified and rise and risen propping his power over, sin, death and hell? Aren't the churches and teachings established by the apostle Paul still the model churches are supposed to follow? Calvinism sounds like unsound false doctrine to me. What happened to saved by grace through faith in Christ only? Works do not save or prove Salvation. Isn't agape love the first fruit of Salvation? And who cares about Michael Servetus? Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead." If the RCC was after him he's in good company. They replaced Ceaser
I don't care about Michael Servetus, either. It's just that anti-Reformed people bring the incident between Calvin and Servetus up a lot as an ad-hominem attack. Maybe a lot of them are Anabaptists who take it personal :)

Reformed means those who believe in the doctrines of grace (radical corruption, universal atonement, particular redemption, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints). Those individuals would include me.

Reformed theology is not false doctrine. It is a reasonable view of Scripture. It favors a God who is sovereign over all things, and seeks to honor and glorify Him.

Reformed people do believe in justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God alone.

Who said anything about salvation by works?

I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your remarks from. :)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#29
He doesn't just make it possible. He elects certain individuals. Jesus atones for them on the Cross and actually purchases them. The Holy Spirit applies this atonement to them in space and time, and regenerates them.

Jesus didn't purchase anyone that he doesn't receive. He actually purchased them. They are his possession.

But, I'm sure we will get into that later.

By the way, anyone who believes is saved. However, only the elect believe. Because God regenerates them and gifts them with both faith and repentance.

It is the Father who draws, and all who are drawn are raised up at the last day (John 6:44). Therefore if someone isn't raised up, they weren't drawn by the Father. That is the reading of the verse.
TULIP makes the contrary series of events than what you describe to Magenta there.
T=Total Depravity, makes it impossible to arrive at faith in Christ.

Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”

And this occurs due to God's sovereign will. Not anything that TD individual has done nor could achieve of their own accord.
Unconditional Election = God chose from eternity to save certain people, not based upon any foreseen virtue, faith, or anticipated acceptance of the Gospel. God chose to extend mercy to those He has specifically chosen and to withhold mercy from those not chosen. Those chosen receive salvation through Christ alone. Those not chosen receive wrath and damnation.
Bible Responses

Luke 13:3—“I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

John 3:16—“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

John 8:24—“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Acts 10:34-35—“Then Peter opened his mouth and said: ‘In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.’”

Romans 2:5-11—“God…will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”

1 Peter 1:17—“And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear.”

Revelation 22:17—“Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”

Limited Atonement = Christ died only for those whom God specifically pre-decided to save—the elect—but not for any others.
Bible Responses

1 Timothy 2:3-4—“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:5-6—“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all.”

Titus 2:11-12—“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.”

1 John 2:2—“And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”

John 3:17—“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.”

2 Peter 3:9—“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

Acts 10:34—“God shows no partiality.”

Romans 2:11—“For there is no partiality with God.”
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#30
Only when God installs his Irresistible Grace into that chosen one, the elect, are they then able to be imbued with faith in Christ, by God himself.

Irresistible Grace = God’s saving grace is applied to those whom He has determined to save (the elect), overcoming their resistance to the call of the Gospel, bringing them to a saving faith. This means that when God sovereignly purposes to save someone, that individual certainly will be saved (even against his will if necessary). This purposeful influence of God’s Holy Spirit, Who creates faith within the individual, cannot be resisted.
Bible Responses

Deuteronomy 30:19—“I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life.”

Joshua 24:15—“Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

Luke 7:30—“But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.”

John 12:42-43—“Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.”

Acts 7:51—“You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

Acts 13:46—“Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, ‘It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.


And through those processes are those God creates to be saved by accepting the Gospel He let them to accept through his actions, are they eternally secure.

Perseverance of the Saints = Since God is sovereign and His will cannot be frustrated by humans or anything else, those whom God has called into communion with Himself will continue in faith until the end. They cannot be eternally lost.
Bible Responses

Galatians 5:4—“You [Christians] have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”

2 Peter 2:20-22—“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: ‘A dog returns to his own vomit,’ and, ‘a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.’”

Hebrews 4:11—“Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.”

Hebrews 6:4-6—“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

Hebrews 10:38-39—“‘Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”

James 5:19-20—“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”

Revelation 2:5—“Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.”

Revelation 3:5—“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”

Revelation 22:19—“If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life.”

 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#31
I don't care about Michael Servetus, either. It's just that anti-Reformed people bring the incident between Calvin and Servetus up a lot as an ad-hominem attack. Maybe a lot of them are Anabaptists who take it personal :)

Reformed means those who believe in the doctrines of grace (radical corruption, universal atonement, particular redemption, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints). Those individuals would include me.

Reformed theology is not false doctrine. It is a reasonable view of Scripture. It favors a God who is sovereign over all things, and seeks to honor and glorify Him.

Reformed people do believe in justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God alone.

Who said anything about salvation by works?

I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your remarks from. :)
No one here to my knowledge introduced the issue of Michael Servetus prior to your opening this thread for that purpose of introduction.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#32
Z
They replaced Ceaser
(Computer malfunction) Continued; They replaced Caesar with the Pope and worship Mary since there is no queen oh heaven and God is not a respecter of men. Who cares what the RCC or the Vatican's' opinions are?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#33
I don't care about Michael Servetus, either. It's just that anti-Reformed people bring the incident between Calvin and Servetus up a lot as an ad-hominem attack. Maybe a lot of them are Anabaptists who take it personal :)

Reformed means those who believe in the doctrines of grace (radical corruption, universal atonement, particular redemption, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints). Those individuals would include me.

Reformed theology is not false doctrine. It is a reasonable view of Scripture. It favors a God who is sovereign over all things, and seeks to honor and glorify Him.

Reformed people do believe in justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God alone.

Who said anything about salvation by works?

I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your remarks from. :)
I think the main difference between Reformed Christians and others is the different way we view time.

To others, we view time linearly, a person make a choice to accept or reject Christ at period t.

At t+1, if he accepts Christ, he is saved, if he rejects Christ, he is not saved.

While for reformers, at t+1, if he accepts Christ, that means at t, God has already pre-ordained him to accept Christ, and vice versa if he rejects.

That means to reformers, there was no choice to make at period t.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#34
No one here to my knowledge introduced the issue of Michael Servetus prior to your opening this thread for that purpose of introduction.
It's been brought up twice in the month or so I've been here by other people.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#35
Z


(Computer malfunction) Continued; They replaced Caesar with the Pope and worship Mary since there is no queen oh heaven and God is not a respecter of men. Who cares what the RCC or the Vatican's' opinions are?
Amen!
They replaced the Caesar with their Pope and the Roman Senate with their "Ordo" or, College, of Bishops.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#36
I think the main difference between Reformed Christians and others is the different way we view time.

To others, we view time linearly, a person make a choice to accept or reject Christ at period t.

At t+1, if he accepts Christ, he is saved, if he rejects Christ, he is not saved.

While for reformers, at t+1, if he accepts Christ, that means at t, God has already pre-ordained him to accept Christ, and vice versa if he rejects.

That means to reformers, there was no choice to make at period t.
t-3 is foreknowledge (fore-loving) t-2 is election, t-1 is Christ's atonement, t is regeneration (being born again) and t +1 is faith and repentance.

Election guarantees all the other events will occur, in the order expressed.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#37
I think the main difference between Reformed Christians and others is the different way we view time.

To others, we view time linearly, a person make a choice to accept or reject Christ at period t.

At t+1, if he accepts Christ, he is saved, if he rejects Christ, he is not saved.

While for reformers, at t+1, if he accepts Christ, that means at t, God has already pre-ordained him to accept Christ, and vice versa if he rejects.

That means to reformers, there was no choice to make at period t.
In thinking about this again...there is a choice to be made concerning faith and repentance..but because the person's nature is changed via regeneration, the choice will reflect their new nature, which means that it will always result in faith and repentance.

In Reformed theology, regeneration precedes faith and repentance. Faith and repentance are a choice, but due to the change in nature, the person always chooses to repent and place their faith in Christ.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,687
7,165
113
#38
Additionally, the atonement didn't just make it "possible". The atonement achieved the salvation of those he has purchased.

That's a major issue with the universal atonement view. The Bible teaches that those who are to be saved actually were purchased at the Cross, out of every tongue, tribe and nation. They are Jesus' possession. There's no "possible" about it. Their atonement was achieved.

That's why I hold to limited atonement. Because Jesus actually atoned for the sins of those who are purchased, who are the elect.
What specific verse again gives you the certainty of limited atonement.

So Is this accurate...

You believe you are Elect thus an elite member of the whosoever, and that had you not been regenerated, your choice to believe impossible, thus choice is really nonexistent? Is this your interpretation of the word?

So other ppl who read the bible, who don't, or rather can't believe simply because God says, nope you are not my chosen?

You go with that because of mine hear my voice...

I appreciate you giving God all the credit, I do too. Though we don't agree on the choice thing. But is this also true...

So you do not think our choice is part of His plan? Is it possible to give Him credit for giving us choice?

Why would He punish some of His creation then, when choosing Him isn't an option?

Or is it merely enough to know, He will show compassion on who He chooses?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,687
7,165
113
#39
So Abraham going up to kill His only Son wasn't a sign of great faith, but rather God made it so? His faith had not one thing to do with choice?

I am just trying to understand your line of thinking.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#40
One of the first things that a Reformed person will face is the false narrative of anti-Calvinists regarding Michael Servetus.

The story is told in various ways.

However, the common story is that John Calvin murdered Michael Servetus. Some claim that he used green wood to burn Servetus at the stake.

The reality is that Michael Servetus intentionally placed himself into the hands of the Geneva Council by traveling through Geneva, and attending church at John Calvin's services. He did this, knowing full well that he was a wanted man.

Servetus was a heretic. He did not believe in the Triune God and taught other false things. There is some indication that he was involved in homosexuality, as well.

Over the years, Servetus tried to convert Calvin to his false belief system. Calvin discussed proper theology with him, but Servetus rejected it. Servetus wrote several letters to Calvin, criticizing orthodox teachings. He made himself a major pain in the butt and could be characterized as a stalker.

Servetus was wanted by the Roman Catholics and in areas other than Switzerland, as well.

So, Servetus was bold enough to travel to Geneva, and to attend John Calvin's church. He was recognized and thrown in jail. During the time he was in jail, Calvin encouraged him to repent of his heresies on a number of occasions.

Letters were sent to various other districts, to garner their view on what should be done with Servetus. In the end, the council decided to execute him. Calvin asked them to behead Servetus, but instead they chose to burn him.

Now, this may sound bad to us, but the reality is that it was commonplace at that time to execute heretics. Christians thought they were the kingdom of God on earth, so the separation between state and church was not so clear.

Despite popular myth, Calvin did not have him burned with green wood so the suffering would last longer. This is the type of mythology that is popularized by rabid anti-Calvinists like Dave Hunt.

Here is an audio that will give some support for these remarks:

https://thefreedthinker.podbean.com...story-matters-calvin-and-the-servetus-affair/

Despite this defense of John Calvin, I find the entire matter to be irrelevant. Either the Bible backs up the principles of Reformed theology, or it does not.

However, I will clearly state that there are many anti-Reformed people on this site who perpetuate errors regarding facts like this. Certain sectors of Christianity play the "telephone game". There is a hodgepodge of error and lies and misrepresentations which form common Christian "knowledge".

I strongly encourage people to read volumes on church history and educate yourself. Don't believe the folklore that passes for Christian history on this site. 2000 Years of Christ's Power by Nick Needham would be a great place to start. There is also a history of Christianity by Justo Gonzales that is decent, but I don't think it's detailed enough.

Whatever church history volumes you read, make sure you check out the reviews on Amazon, and see if there's a significant number of people who question the authors' integrity. Like anything else, historians can be biased in their views, too.

oh

so it was actually the victim's fault

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, suffered a worse fate. He was Calvin's longtime acquaintance who resisted the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. However, he angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's Institutes with critical comments in the margins. So what did Calvin do? You can read his resolution from a personal letter he wrote to a friend:

“Servetus offers to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail.” - Letter to Farel, 13 February 1546


this is a letter that exists to this day

no one is making up anything about the murderous nature of one Calvin the judge and executionner of all

he obviously totally lacked any fruit of the Holy Spirit, so what spirit drove him to his fanaticism?


what a word salad of making poor excuses for a murderous individual who actually had quite a few more than poor Michael done away with

at the rate you put people on ignore because they refute your false beliefs regarding salvation, seems to compliment the desire to do away with anyone who has a mind of their own

but then again, you don't believe people have a mind of their own :rolleyes:

John Calvin’s interpretation of the Bible justified the murder of his theological opponents. He himself did not cut off any heads or light any fires that burned human heretics alive, but John Calvin’s preaching from the Old and New Testaments claimed those capital punishments aligned with God’s interests.

How so? Calvin did not believe all Old Covenant laws had been set aside by the New Covenant Jesus inaugurated. He didn't buy into the plain sense of Hebrews: “God has made the first covenant obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13). He maneuvered around Paul’s conclusion: “the Law became a tutor to lead us to Christ and now that faith has come we are no longer under a tutor” (Galatians 3:24-25; cf. Rom 10:4). Calvin dismissed this data from the New Testament and decided the moral laws in the Old Covenant laws of the Torah still applied. And killing people who perverted his pure doctrine was a moral necessity.

Calvin specifically justified capital punishment of heretics with Leviticus 24:16. “The one who blasphemes the name of the Lord should be put to death; all the congregation must stone him. Any foreigner or native who blasphemes the Name should be put to death.”

Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from approving and promoting the death of his theological enemies. And Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were equally ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin did not patiently discuss his differences with people who promoted competing ideas. Calvin requested beheadings, made death threats, and praised God for orchestrating the torture of heretics.

Calvin spelled out his theologically reinforced vengeance in a personal letter:

“I am persuaded that it is not without the special will of God that, apart from any verdict of the judges, the criminals have endured protracted torment at the hands of the executioner.” - Calvin's letter to Farel on 24 July (for more words directly from Calvin’s pen, read Selected Works of John Calvin)

Calvin believed God made sure criminals didn’t die quickly when tortured. This vengeful attitude and his support for outdated Old Covenant laws that legislated capital punishment for competing theologians that challenged his preferred doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus. more on Calvin's loving nature