A QUESTION ON ETERNAL HELL

There are quite a few angry atheists who are ex-christians who have been badly let down by the church. And what do we expect from atheists when we tell them "there is none righteous, no not one", or "your goodness is just filthy rags" or "your going to hell" or " your heart is ugly to God" or they have become "worthless".? Magenta, we must be very careful when we yank individual verses of scripture from their context and assume it applies to all people everywhere. There are plenty of people of all kinds doing tremendously good things. So it is not true that there is "no one good, no not one". Maybe in the setting that Paul was writing in it was true, but not in my experience.

Isn't the good news that in fact there is something beautiful at heart of everyone, the image of God? That Jesus saves us from sin that obscures our true relationship with the Father? So there is good in everyone.... but God prunes us, like fruit trees, to bear greater and more good fruit....without destroying the plant. Now that is good news!

To me that verse does not necessary mean that one's memory of unsaved loved ones is erased. I believe however we will have better understanding of God's justice in the end.

To me that verse does not necessary mean that one's memory of unsaved loved ones is erased. I believe however we will have better understanding of God's justice in the end.

I,m grateful too! I,m 53 and have found life quite a ride. The older you get the more funerals you go to, thats for sure.
It's an interesting point you make though. Christians will quite often say that "we all get the opportunity in this life to repent" and that we need to find God whilst on earth, and if we don't then we are in big trouble........forever! However we don't all get the same life conditions or even opportunities. My sister died of cancer at age 32 in 1982. A lad I know died at about age 12 of leukaemia in 1978. Someone else will live until 100 quite healthy. And yet we all have the same chance to turn to God? I don't think so.

There are quite a few angry atheists who are ex-christians who have been badly let down by the church. And what do we expect from atheists when we tell them "there is none righteous, no not one", or "your goodness is just filthy rags" or "your going to hell" or " your heart is ugly to God" or they have become "worthless".? Magenta, we must be very careful when we yank individual verses of scripture from their context and assume it applies to all people everwhere. There are plenty of people of all kinds doing tremendously good things. So it is not true that there is "no one good, no not one". Maybe in the setting that Paul was writing in it was true, but not in my experience.
Isn't the good news that in fact there is something beautiful at heart of everyone, the image of God? That Jesus saves us from sin that obscures our true relationship with the Father? So there is good in everyone.... but God prunes us, like fruit trees, to bear greater and more good fruit....without destroying the plant. Now that is good news!

I,m just reading a book called " Universalism: The prevailing doctrine of the church during it's first 500 years", by John Hanson.

Full of hope.....surely the best news gospel.....one of the heresies that is spoken against is the idea that God's love and God's justice are two different things. I constantly hear that, yes, God is love...BUT....he is also just. It is the BUT that bothers me.....as if the justice cancels out the love.

I,m just reading a book called " Universalism: The prevailing doctrine of the church during it's first 500 years", by John Hanson.

Full of hope.....surely the best news gospel.....one of the heresies that is spoken against is the idea that God's love and God's justice are two different things. I constantly hear that, yes, God is love...BUT....he is also just. It is the BUT that bothers me.....as if the justice cancels out the love.

Dibby53, I would suggest that you search out the scriptures again, because what I am seeing by your posts is that a person can be saved by performing good works, which is false. "doing tremendously good things" will not get anyone into heaven. As far as God is concerned, those good things that people are doing are as filthy rags. Performing them cannot grant anyone access into the kingdom of God. This is exactly how the world thinks, that if they do good works in their life that somehow after they die those good works will be credited to them and will allow them in. This is a lie of Satan! Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me. Unless their is a shedding of blood their is no forgiveness of sins! Doing good works does not provide a covering for our sins.



Yes, that is true. However, you have to be in Christ to have a relationship with God. Those doing going good works without being committed to Christ, remain condemned. Below is a scriptural example:

"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

What happened?! Those in the example above prophesied in Jesus' name, they drove out demons and performed many miracles. But at the judgment, Jesus' response to them will be "I never knew you; depart from me." They were doing good works, why did Jesus reject them? It is because they will have trusted in their own works as the reason for why they should inherit the kingdom of God. The reason they will not enter in can be seen by their own words "Did we not." It is only through faith in Christ that we will inherit the kingdom of God.

What it means is, if one accepts God's provision for salvation, then that person is credited with righteousness and is reconciled to God. Anyone who does not accept God's provision for salvation, but attempts to enter in another way (like doing going good works), are not saved and are not reconciled to God. That being that case, that person is still in their sins. And those still in their sins, God will judge and condemn. The answer for everyone then, is to do it God's way instead of your own way, because it ain't going to fly.

My advice to you, is to stop trying to make scripture fit your own ideas of what salvation is. I am not saying these things just to be confrontational, but to contend for the truth. When you bring these types of ideas into a Christian chat room, you may be turning people away from the truth.

You need to reread the word of God and believe what it says instead of interpreting it based on your own feelings.

I don't think people are so weak in their faith that they can't handle my thoughts, feelings and questions on a chat room. And it is my contention that I,m saying nothing that many in the early centuries of christendom didn't also say.

@Dibby53, I have thought about hell and had questions as well. There are different views on it. Some prescribe to the fire and brimstone hell and some view it more like jail and not literal fire. I have. wholeheartly believed in the fire and brimstone hell before for all unbelievers. Now I cannot say for sure that I know what it would be like. However whatever it is like, God will be just and right and holy.

1 John 1:5( KJV ): This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

I have a wonderful friend. He has been so kind to me in my life. In fact without his love for me I think my life would have been alot more troubled and chaotic than it was. When I was a drunken mess he was there. If anyone needs help he is there. I,ve just been on holiday and he looked after my cat. But he is on his way to hell, while I have my memory wiped of his existence and am so overwhelmed by glory in a new body? Heaven sounds worse and worse to me.

What it means is, if one accepts God's provision for salvation, then that person is credited with righteousness and is reconciled to God. Anyone who does not accept God's provision for salvation, but attempts to enter in another way (like doing going good works), are not saved and are not reconciled to God. That being that case, that person is still in their sins. And those still in their sins, God will judge and condemn. The answer for everyone then, is to do it God's way instead of your own way, because it ain't going to fly.

My advice to you, is to stop trying to make scripture fit your own ideas of what salvation is. I am not saying these things just to be confrontational, but to contend for the truth. When you bring these types of ideas into a Christian chat room, you may be turning people away from the truth.

You need to reread the word of God and believe what it says instead of interpreting it based on your own feelings.

I don't think people are so weak in their faith that they can't handle my thoughts, feelings and questions on a chat room. And it is my contention that I,m saying nothing that many in the early centuries of christendom didn't also say.

Hi Dibby53

Please Read / Listen : (Click on the Link) http://www.divinerevelations.info/mary_k_baxter_a_divine_revelation_of_hell.htm

I hope this extra info will help as you make your decision.

A.

None of the first century teachers left out the need to be covered by the blood of Christ, which is by grace through faith. I do understand where you are coming from: you contend for your standard of goodness being put above the standard God has set. God does invite us to reason with Him, yet His standard does not change. He is the ultimate authority and has all power, both of which have been turned over to Jesus, Who said, "Nobody comes to the Father but by me." Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world to give His life as a ransom for many, the all who would believe. There is no other way to be saved than by faith in Him. His death fulfilled the law. If you are not covered by grace through faith in His shed righteous blood, you are under the law, will be judged by the law, and will be found wanting under the law, for to break even one law makes you guilty of breaking them all. You and your friends whom you care so much for... Jesus said, "You must be born again." Do you witness to your friends? I wonder how they receive your talk of Jesus, or do you discuss such things with them? Do you have a home church, or listen to any teachers? There are many good ones available online. One I would recommend to anyone is Dr. John Neufeld of Back To The Bible Canada. He is really lovely

Afrikan,
Thanks for the link, which I mostly read. I had to stop after wading through terrible descriptions of suffering and gore and burning flesh. This woman's visionary experiences sounds like something from a Stephen King horror novel! Jesus comes across as totally pityless. I could never accept that God is like she describes. Any God who is truly like this is not worthy of worship, in my opinion.

I think it says more about her state of mind than anything to do with God.

Hi Dibby53,

I 'm glad that you at least managed to read through some of the vision. I first read her account of HELL almost 10 years ago (2009) at a time when i was deep in sin and uncaring for the things of GOD. As the years went by, her horrific accounts of suffering of the damned kept coming back to my memory even as i sunk deeper into secret sins; The fear of her descriptions never left me. I believe now that it was GOD pulling me back to HIM and i know this may be little comfort to you but, I'm grateful for her visions.

When i consider the people described in the vision, i now know that GOD is not mocked; Just as HE brought me back to Salvation last year (2018) through a family tragedy when i knelt and re-committed myself to HIM, HE could just as easily DISCARD me into ETERNAL DAMNATION if i turn back to my former ways.

As i mentioned before in an earlier message to you, i understand that we are at different points in our salvation but, i just wanted to ask you:
# What if all her terrible accounts of Hell are true ?
# What will you do then, when it is too late to repent and receive the gift of Salvation by Jesus Christ ?

On the issue of the descriptions of JESUS' emotions in the accounts, i won't claim to speak for his HIM but, you need to understand that this World and all his creation is governed by Divine Law, HIS LAW; Again and again, HE reaches out to us offering salvation (just as HE was doing for me for those 10 years i was in sin) but either, we enjoy our sin too much to care or are too stubborn to accept it.

I'm going to assume that wherever you are in this world you watch/hear the news just as we all do; Imagine the Billions around us who've heard of HIS goodness and HIS saving grace but reject it all the same, continuing in sin oblivious to HIS righteous judgement on them one day - LGBTQ groups, Abortion activists, Rapists & Pedophiles, Human Traffickers, Drug Traffickers, Genocidal Presidents, Occult & devil worshipers and even WE CHRISTIANS WHO LIVE WORLDLY LIVES !!!!!

Consider this: Adolf Hitler during World War 2, contributed to the deaths of almost 100 million of his fellow human beings all across this world, do you really think that he had not heard about our JESUS and HIS Love for all Mankind, HIS Promises & Commands to us HIS children ???? But, Hitler loved his power more than he wanted GOD in his life and so on the day when he stands before GOD at the judgement what other choice will JESUS have except to say - DEPART FROM ME !!!!!

Even as i use this man's life (Hitler) as an example of wickedness, I'm keenly aware that in GOD's eyes, any righteousness i consider myself to have is as filthy rags to HIM. Knowing this, i constantly appropriate HIS precious blood that he shed on the cross at Calvary for me in order to obtain its cleansing power of any Unrighteousness in me - HE IS MY GOD and I AM HIS CREATION so I have chosen to do my best to obey all HIS commands and submit to HIS ways.

Sorry for being a little long-winded but, i'd like to reference below a small portion of Mary Kathryn Baxter's account of a Christian in Hell who fell back to sin, to explain the danger of failing to submit to HIM completely:



" ..................... The next cell we came to was filled with a terrible odor. I could hear the cries of the dead and moans of regret everywhere. I felt so sad that I was almost sick. I made up my mind that I would do all I could to tell the world about this place.
A woman's voice said, "Help me." I stared into a real pair of eyes, not the burned-out sockets which were the marks of burning. I was so sad I shivered, and I felt such pity and sorrow for this soul. I wanted so badly to pull her out of the cell and run away with her. "It's so painful," she said.
"Lord, I will do what is right now. I once knew You, and You were my Savior." Her hands clenched the bars of the cell. "Why won't you be my Savior now?" Big pieces of burning flesh fell from her, and only bones clenched the bars.
"You even healed me of cancer," she said. "You told me to go and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon me. I tried, Lord; You know I tried. I even tried to witness for You. But, Lord, I soon learned that those who preach Your Word are not popular. I wanted people to like me. I slowly went back into the world and the lust of the flesh devoured me. Nightclubs and strong drink became more important than You. I lost touch with my Christian friends and soon found myself seven times worse than I had been before.
"And though I became lovers of both men and women, I never intended to be lost. I did not know that I was possessed by satan. I still felt Your call upon my heart to repent and be saved, but I would not. I kept thinking I still had time. Tomorrow I will turn back to Jesus, and He will forgive me and deliver me. But I waited too long, and now it is too late," she cried.
Her sad eyes burst into flames and disappeared. I screamed and fell against Jesus. O Lord, I thought, how easily could that have been me or one of my loved ones! Please, sinner, wake up before it is too late ........... "




Please pray to the Lord for HIM to show you the truth before it's too late, Dibby53.


A.

I,m glad you have found some peaces Afrikan. To me God's love is invitational. I wouldn't want to respond to God on the basis of fear, or because he threatens me. How would I genuinely love someone feely who tries to scare me? The Father is good and beautiful and true. He invites us to partake of a more beautiful life......fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom......love of the Lord is it's completion!

so what is your stance today you still unsure or?