The usage of the words "all" and "world"

What I meant was they are the closest to the mss that are available. Sorry for my gaffe.

Well, I don’t have first hand knowledge, so yes. But I’ll look this up and see where I got this info from.

Ok then...

Here are a few links...


https://www.biblesociety.org.uk/explore-the-bible/which-is-the-best-bible-translation/

• Date first published: 1971 (updated in 1995)
• What kind of translation? Formal equivalence – very literal, as close to the original sentence structure as possible
• Average reading age? 16+
• Gender neutral language? No
• Often stated pros of the translation:
  • Considered by many to be the ‘most literal’ translation
  • especial care was taken to reflect the same verb tense as in the original
• Often stated cons of the translation:
  • Often almost impossible to understand in English
  • Conservative theology affects translational decisions
• Sample verse: 'But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?' (1 John 3.17)

Ok then what? It doesn’t prove the KJV is the lone word of God in English, either.

There can only be one word of God in English since all the versions contain different words and different truths. If there’s not one, then there’s none.

Alright Brothers, lets not rabbit trail this thread into a KJV v. MV thread, okay? Let’s stick to the subject at hand. If you want to discuss this, one of you, @fredoheaven or @John146 start a thread and I’ll chime in there. But let’s stay on point here.

Start a thread on this is you wish to discuss it further. But not here, please.

Umm, it so happen KJV is the pure words of God, not saying 'lone' because there are numerous Englsih versions, perhaps NASB contains words of God...how about that?

Let’s not discuss this here. This is not what the subject is about. If you wish to carry this further, feel free to start a thread and I’ll jump in.

Just like the serpent’s words to Eve contained some truth, but ultimately he was a liar.

Moving onwards and upwards...

As I stated in the OP, the words "all" and "world", even "whole world", rarely mean "everybody w/o exception", or "every person whoever lived". I am not saying they don't in some places, but most of them pertain to a particle group of ppl. So, let us delve into some verses...

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

Notice that John has differentiated between the two ppl groups, the saved and the lost. The first part he wrote We know that we are of God, and here he is referring to the saved. He then wrote and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, and here is referring to the lost. In this he wrote and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, so we can know for certain that 'whole world' here does not mean "everybody whoever lived". But "whole world" here, John is referring to the lost. As the saved are longer under the power of Satan but God.

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. [Romans 1:8]

Paul, in his opening to the church in Rome, wrote this to them. Now, the gospel started being proclaimed in Jerusalem and then later after the Christians were being persecuted, and in this persecution, it caused them to leave there and go elsewhere. It was by this happening to them, they started spreading the gospel in other areas of the world. But at this time, ppl in modern day North, Central, and South America, Guam, the Fiji Islands, the Hawaiian Islands, Alaska, &c., they had not heard the gospel to centuries later. So, "whole world" here can not mean "everybody whoever lived" as many died w/o ever hearing it.

Now, here is one that gets bandied about quite a bit. So, let us take a deeper look into this verse...

and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.[1 John 2:2]

Here we see the words "whole world" and ppl think that this means that the Christ propitiated for every man, woman, and child. But does "whole world" really mean "everybody whoever lived"? I do not believe so, and here is why. Many focus on the words "whole world", but their focus should be on the word "propitiation". What does that word even mean some may ask. I am glad they asked that.

It comes from the Greek word ἱλασμός (hilasmos) and it means:

--Atoning sacrifice(NIV states that ver batim)
--Sin offering
--expiation(removal of one's guilt)

Also in this, God's wrath is appeased, satiated, satisfied, placated, &c. In other words, God is completely satisfied with the work of His Son on the cross. It means that those who the Son propitiated the Father for(God was propitiated not mankind), He has no more wrath for. He(the Christ) bore their sins, and subsequent wrath, to appease, placate, satiate, propitiate the Father's wrath for sin. If the Christ paid the sin debt for all mankind without exception, then the Father's wrath is appeased, placated, satiated, satisfied, propitiated, and on the day of judgment, there is no wrath to mete out.

So, in a brief summary, if 1 John 2:2 means everybody w/o exception, then everyone w/o exception will be saved. Why? Because the Father's wrath has been appeased for all the ones the Christ propitiated the Father for. And, if He propitiated God for everybody w/o exception, then His wrath is appeased for everybody w/o exception.

Here's another verse that gets bandied about quite a bit that deserves further investigation...

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.[2 Cor. 5:19]

Here again, we see another verse that ppl say "world" means "everybody w/o exception", but with further investigation, I will debunk that interpretation. First off, let us define the world "reconciling".

It comes from the Greek word καταλλάσσω (katallassō) and it means:

--To change
--To exchange
--To reconcile
--To be reconciled

The definition of reconcile is--To restore friendly relations, to coexist in harmony. Seeing that many will die lost, "world" here can not mean "everybody w/o exception" as they died w/o having friendly relations(in fact, the lost are called God's enemies, Rom. 5:10, 1 Cor. 15:25, Phpp. 3:18) with God. They died not being reconciled to God. Furthermore, there is a portion of this verse that ppl seem to miss. These words "not counting their trespasses against them", if "world" in this verse means "everybody whoever lived" then "everybody whoever lived" is not having their sins counted against them. That means God does not hold all ppl whoever lived sins against them. Think about that.

Also, those who are saved are now friends of God and no longer His enemies. In this verse and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.[James 2:23]. You can also find this in Genesis 15:6 & Romans 4:3, but James 2:23 adds "and he was called the friend of God." No lost person can ever be called a friend of God.

So, in summation, I believe I have presented a biblical case here that "world" does not mean "everybody whoever lived" but that the message of reconciliation is being proclaimed worldwide.

Okay, here is another verse to further examine: John 1:29

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Here is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”[John 1:29 CSB]

This verse is used to support universal atonement, but those who use it, haven’t fully grasped all it avers. John proclaimed He takes away the sin of the world. Now, if the word ‘world’ means ‘all whoever lived’, they’re advocating universalism. If ‘world’ means ‘worldwide’, it makes better sense. Here’s what I mean. To take away sins means to expiate them. To expiate means to take/remove one’s guilt from them. If their sins are taken from them, then they’re saved, seeing saved means to be justified, and being justified means to be declared righteous before God. So, if the Christ takes sins from literally everyone, which is what many say ‘world’ means, then everyone whose sins have been taken away are saved. They have had their sins expiated/removed from them.


God’s wrath will be poured out on all the lost on the day of judgment. If ‘everybody whoever lived’ have their sins taken from them, then there’s no wrath for God to mete out the day He judges ppl.

In expiation is also propitiation, which means God’s wrath has been satisfied, satiated, appeased. So, those who have their sins taken away, expiated, do not have God’s wrath abiding upon them, seeing they have been expiated, propiated(also means atoned), and have been reconciled to God. Reconciliation means two enemies making peace with each other. None who are reconciled, their sins expiated/taken away, have their sins propitiated(which means it was God who was propitiated as He was the one offended, not man) will die lost.

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.”[John 10:11]

Here we see the Christ giving His life for the sheep. In this, He took their sins upon Himself(expiation), died in their stead(propitiation/which also means atonement), and rose from the dead for them(justification). Then it was also written Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.[Ephesians 5:25] So, the Christ died for His ppl, the elect, the sheep, and in this, He expiated, reconciled and propiated their sins, and they will never die lost.

He did not even spare his own Son but offered him up for us all. How will he not also with him grant us everything?[Romans 8:32 CSB]

Those who hold to a universal atonement use this verse as ‘proof’ that the Christ died for all mankind, all without exception. But that verse is not saying that, not even remotely close. Again, context is king. As the saying goes, “text without context is pretext”. That whole chapter, Romans 8, has God’s chosen ppl, His sheep, His elect, in focus. Verse 1 starts out by saying Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. So right from the first verse, God’s ppl are those Paul is addressing in this great chapter. Paul then gives an example of those who have their minds set on the flesh and those who have their minds set on the Spirit.[vss 5-9] He then says Now if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, then he who raised Christ from the dead will also bring your mortal bodies to life through his Spirit who lives in you.[vss 10,11] So you can see the context of Romans 8 is clearly God’s chosen ppl, His sheep, His elect.

He then gives us the ‘golden chain of redemption’ in vss 28-30 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified;and those he justified, he also glorified. These ppl in vss 28-30 can NOT be all mankind, because all who He foreknew, He predestined, called, justified(declared righteous before God), and glorified. Seeing that not everyone is saved, all can NOT be glorified. Again, the context is crystal clear as to whom Paul is referring to.

Then the very next verse after vs 32 Paul wrote Who can bring an accusation against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies. There’s those pesky words some ppl hate to see, God’s elect. Also, Paul stated it is God who justifies. How does God justify the lost? By faith. Romans 5:1 states Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. So, where does faith come from that justifies the lost? It can not come from man, seeing not all ppl have faith, as 2 Thessalonians 3:2 says and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not all have faith. Faith comes from God and does not resonate from man, nor is it innate in fallen man. The lost are devoid of faith, because the very moment someone has faith they are saved.

Then we can read Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is the one who died, but even more, has been raised; he also is at the right hand of God and intercedes for us.[vs 34] Who are these ‘and intercedes for us’? If you look at the role the OT High Priest played, and that he interceded for God’s ppl, and that the Christ is the High Priest for God’s ppl, the elect, it’s crystal clear the ppl who make up ‘and intercedes for us’, is not mankind indiscriminately, but His sheep, His elect.

I will end this after examining this passage No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[vss 37-39] In verse 37 Paul wrote ‘we are conquerors through Him who loved us’. Again, us in context, is believers. Then he goes on to write that nothing can separate us(believers, not all mankind indiscriminately) from the love of God that is in the Christ.

So, the ‘all’ in vs 32 are God’s ppl, God’s sheep, God’s elect, who He offered for atonement for their sins.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” [John 3:16 NASB]


Ppl who hold to universal atonement look at this verse and see the word ‘world’ and conflate it to mean ‘everybody whoever lived’. But that is not what the word ‘world’ means. The Greek word used is ‘kosmos’, which means the entire earth, but not ‘everybody whoever lived’. John 1:10 states it like this “He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.” So, the word ‘world’ used in that verse can not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’, seeing this was in reference to His coming in the flesh. And at that time, He never traveled outside of the middle east. So those who were alive in places like China, Russia, North and South America, the Hawaiian islands, Japan, Vietnam, North and South Korea, &c, did not know anything about His coming in the flesh. So, there’s no way you can fit ‘everybody who ever lived’, or even ‘everybody who was alive at that time’ into the word ‘world’. It just will not fit.


When you approach the scriptures, you have to do so with God’s attributes in view. Two of His attributes I will use here are His immutability and love. We can read so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.[Hebrews 6:18] Unchangeable in that verse is also used as immutable in other translations. Also, God’s love is an everlasting love, as He told Jeremiah The Lord appeared to him from afar, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.[Jeremiah 31:3] Now, with these two attributes in mind, how can God be immutable, be unchangeable, and then turn around and look to those who died in their sins and cast them headlong into eternal torment, if He loved them? If He loves them eternally and He is unchangeable, then He is loving ppl who are being eternally tormented for their sins. I want no part of that love whatsoever. Remember, His love is everlasting, and He is unchangeable. That is why I, and also the bible, aver His love is not for all mankind, but for those He chose from before the foundation of the world.[Ephesians 1:4]


Romans 9 shows that there are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy. Here we can see the goats and the sheep. The sheep are the vessels of mercy and the goats the vessels of wrath. God is patient with the vessels of wrath, withholding His divine judgment upon His creation until His last sheep has been added to the fold.


Its funny how ppl will focus on John 3:16, but they lose sight of “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”[John 3:36] So, God does love the ‘world’, as John 3:16 plainly states, but that does not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’. If so, then God is not unchangeable. Because, He loved them up until they stand before Him and He pronounces them guilty, turns from loving them to hating them, and casting them into eternal torment.


So, if God is unchangeable, and loved them He will cast into hell, are you willing to aver He loves them that are in an eternal hell? I will leave that decision up to you.

Peter, James, John and other apostles were once part the world but because they have believe in Christ they were born of God v1, likewise, whosoever believes on him will be a part of God's family. The world is described to those who have rejected Christ.☺