Not By Works

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EleventhHour

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#116,361
#116,361
eternally-gratefull said:
If they were saved, They understood the law could never save them, and their only hope was the sacrifice of the lamb

so there owuld be no temptation to going to be justified by law

Now maybe bang sanctified by law? That could be an issue and it has been for many over the years. But that was not Pauls point to the Galatian church. His context was justification. Not sanctification.

Again, Justified by faith. That is the context of pauls argument. The context was not sanctification. If he was talking to true believers, He would be talking about being sanctified by law. Not justified. He would not be telling them they have been severed, he woudl not be telling them christ became no affect. He would not be asking them how they were originally saved in the spirit they are foolish for thinking they must maintain, or perfect (complete) their salvation in the flesh.

Paul is fighting a legalistic gospel of works. Much Like DC has been doing in this thread. This thread is not about those who are tryign to be sanctified by works, it is about those trying to be justified (saved) by works.

How many times have we had to correct people for saying we do not think a believer will change, or they can live in sin. And do whatever they want? Because they are using sanctification as a context of this thread not justification
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We cannot assume how well they understood.
Again this is all new to them... agree not about sanctification ... about grace and the experience of grace.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#116,362
#116,362
EleventhHour said:
Galatians 4:10 KJV
10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 5:4-5 KJV
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So are you stating that when Paul states here they have fallen from grace he was speaking to non-believers?
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Can a true believer fall from Grace? Can they fall from unmerited favor? I think we need to think deeply about this.

If we can. We better find some other hope. Because Gods grace is not sufficient to the point he can keep us. We r in danger of falling away and ending up in hell.

The prodigal son never fell from Grace, Gods grace still sustained his salvation. He did fall from a life of blessing. Because God went from a loving father who blessed. To a loving father who chastened. But he never fell fm grace.

Does this make sense? DO you see why I see it the way I do? I am sorry if I am not presenting myself in a way that is understandable. I am under the weather.. Been sick for a few days.
 
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Discern

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Dec 6, 2019
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#116,363
EleventhHour said:
We must assume the position, intent of the writer, the writer is speaking to believers.
That is the lens all letters must be understood from imho... they actually make a lot more sense.
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Yes, the letter was a means God used to preserve, protect, convict, the people of God, and to rebuke false teaching.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,364
#116,364
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen, So these truly saved would heed pauls warning, because they understood. Where those who were not truely saved were basically brought to a point, confronted. CHose this day what you will trust. Will your continue to trust the law. Or repent and trust Christ.
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They had trusted Christ... they were in the position of Grace..... because of severe persecution they were faltering returning to old ways... affecting their experience of the new life in Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#116,365
#116,365
EleventhHour said:
So then you think all letters are written to believers and not-believers simultaneously?
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All letter are written to local geographical churches, and in them were things written for all who belonged to those institutions.

Including to the people who were attending who had not yet come to true savings faith n Christ.

If they were not. Then the apostles missed an opportunity to address and issue which has been plaguing churches for 2 millennia.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,366
#116,366
eternally-gratefull said:
Can a true believer fall from Grace? Can they fall from unmerited favor? I think we need to think deeply about this.

If we can. We better find some other hope. Because Gods grace is not sufficient to the point he can keep us. We r in danger of falling away and ending up in hell.

The prodigal son never fell from Grace, Gods grace still sustained his salvation. He did fall from a life of blessing. Because God went from a loving father who blessed. To a loving father who chastened. But he never fell fm grace.

Does this make sense? DO you see why I see it the way I do? I am sorry if I am not presenting myself in a way that is understandable. I am under the weather.. Been sick for a few days.
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Yes the experience of Grace.... you yourself have written how you went off track for a time... so have I... we all have lived outside of God's the experience of grace... not the position.

Two aspects to grace...think on it.

1. Position
2. Experience
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#116,367
#116,367
Butterflyyy said:
I was just making the point that God eventually disciplined David, He did not forsake him, despite the dreadful sin. It cost David dearly, and Bathsheba; but David did not lose his position as belonging to God.
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No he did not.

Its amazing to see the powerful men of God and their sins. God Exposed those sins for our benefit. To help us when we fall and make the same mistakes know God will nto forsake us either. Which allows us to confess, and mov on, and not be bound with fear That god dos nto love us anymore. Or we have commited such grave sins we can not be forgiven.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

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Oct 31, 2019
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#116,368
eternally-gratefull said:
If they wee saved, they never would have returned.

If your true faith is in the fact that the law led you to christ because you realized the TRUTH of the law is the fact you can never keep it. This in reality, you are condemned by it. And your only hope is through the sacrificial lamb.

And this brought you to true repentance, because you had assurance you were guilty, and assurance that Christ was the only way

You do not go back to what you KNOW had no power to save you to begin with

You only go back if you never really repented.
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Galatians 5:1
He wouldn't tell them to not be entangled with a yoke of bondage again if they couldn't be though....
I am extremely grateful to the Lord that, whilst I was a believer and became entangled in legalism, He came and rescued me from it ( I'm certain many were praying for me at the time). He is faithful and He delivered me but I know I was His child even at that time.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#116,369
#116,369
EleventhHour said:
They were already justified, they were behaving much like those Jews written to in Hebrews.

That is the whole point they were justified but could not grasp yet that they did not need the law ....historical context... not 21st century lens.
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How could they have repented if hey did not grasp the fact they could not be saved by law?

this makes no sense to me sis..

Its like your trying both ways, I will have one foot in grace, but also keep one foot in the law.. That way I am safe, if the grace people are right, I am with them, if the law is right, I am with them..
 
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Discern

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#116,370
This is not directed at anyone in particular...

It is possible for a person to be saved, receive grace, but not yet fully understand the full ramifications of grace. God will instruct them. That is why I do not pound on a person with Thor’s hammer that may have some error. I may be harming a little one. I am a little one with huge holes in my understanding

So we must treat the little ones, (which includes all of us who are saved) with gentleness
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,371
#116,371
eternally-gratefull said:
How could they have repented if hey did not grasp the fact they could not be saved by law?

this makes no sense to me sis..

Its like your trying both ways, I will have one foot in grace, but also keep one foot in the law.. That way I am safe, if the grace people are right, I am with them, if the law is right, I am with them..
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Can you give me a verse where we are speaking to initial repentance/salvation in the letter?

I do not see it?

I do understand your point?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#116,372
#116,372
Butterflyyy said:
Galatians 5:1
He wouldn't tell them to not be entangled with a yoke of bondage again if they couldn't be though....
I am extremely grateful to the Lord that, whilst I was a believer and became entangled in legalism, He came and rescued me from it ( I'm certain many were praying for me at the time). He is faithful and He delivered me but I know I was His child even at that time.
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He would if they were never saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#116,373
EleventhHour said:
Yes the experience of Grace.... you yourself have written how you went off track for a time... so have I... we all have lived outside of God's the experience of grace... not the position.

Two aspects to grace...think on it.

1. Position
2. Experience
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Yeah, But I NEVER thoughtI could be justified by my works.

Because I know no matter how good I am I will never be good enough. And no amount of work could ever make up for my sins.

That would never cross my mind because I knew the truth of the gospel when I got on my hands and knees.
 
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EleventhHour

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Discern said:
I noticed a trend among some that disagree on lesser things. Not speaking of vital things, but shades of disagreement

It is possible for a person to be saved, receive grace, but not yet fully understand the full ramifications of grace. God will instruct them. That is why I do not pound on a person with Thor’s hammer that may have some error. I may be harming a little one. I am a little one with huge holes in my understanding

So we must treat the little ones, which means all of us) with gentleness
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Of course it is.... absolutely... that is why not important to not read scripture from a personal lens.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,376
#116,376
eternally-gratefull said:
Yeah, But I NEVER thoughtI could be justified by my works.

Because I know no matter how good I am I will never be good enough. And no amount of work could ever make up for my sins.

That would never cross my mind because I knew the truth of the gospel when I got on my hands and knees.
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I do not think the letter is speaking to initial repentance... it is speaking to them having repented but once again going back to trying the law.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,377
#116,377
PS said:
I don't think he understands that to be severed from Christ, means you need to belong to Christ first, before you can be severed.
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Good news you cannot be severed.... as in loose salvation.

Scripture is far more complex as is the Christian experience... hence all the instruction in Paul's letters.
 
PS

PS

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#116,378
eternally-gratefull said:
He would if they were never saved.
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For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. (Gal 5:1)

The word you are not seeing is that word "again." You cannot go back into the world AGAIN if you have never left it.
 
PS

PS

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eternally-gratefull said:
If they wee saved, they never would have returned.

If your true faith is in the fact that the law led you to christ because you realized the TRUTH of the law is the fact you can never keep it. This in reality, you are condemned by it. And your only hope is through the sacrificial lamb.

And this brought you to true repentance, because you had assurance you were guilty, and assurance that Christ was the only way

You do not go back to what you KNOW had no power to save you to begin with

You only go back if you never really repented.
Click to expand...
What did they return from? Answer they returned from knowing Christ. In other words they went back into their old ways.
 
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