Trinity of God and trinity of Existence

Roughsoul1991 · Dec 4, 2019

Disclaimer: the first image is an image explaining a Yogis explanation derived from a Hindu belief of using meditation to connect themselves to nature and the Gods. But in this thread I will not be supporting Hinduism, Yoga, or etc. But will be showing a parallel in a truth out of both images.

Explanation:
Mind, body, soul as in a human. Humans are material vessels living in the environment of a material realm. A yogi will try to connect to the inner middle grounding but in a similar sense our inner grounding that brings sincerity or peace can only be in the Spirit of God.

The trinity of God is in many ways connected to our trinitarian creation of mind, body, soul. The only way we live is by God animating our bodies through his breath of life.

Job 27:3 New International Version (NIV)
3 as long as I have life within me,
the breath of God in my nostrils,

We are told to love God with all 3 also

Mark 12:30 New International Version (NIV)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

Heart" (Hebrew lebab/leb [b'bel], Gk. kardia [kardiva]) occurs over one thousand times in the Bible, making it the most common anthropological term in the Scripture. It denotes a person's center for both physical and emotional-intellectual-moral activities; sometimes it is used figuratively for any inaccessible thing.

Heart (body), soul, mind.

For the Christian, God lives in us through the Spirit. So we are united in Chist and through justification become like Christ until his work is complete in us.

If we intertwine these triangles so that all are connected but all are still uniquely separated we get the symbol below.
🔺️
🔻

Solomon's Seal on a stone from arch of a 3-4th century synagogue in the Galilee

The Star of David appears in the oldest complete copy of the Hebrew Bible, known as The Leningrad Codex, dated 1008

The star of David also known as the shield of David reminds us of God's plan that came through David, how God protects Israel and His people, and how thankful that gentiles was grafted into the same promise given to Abraham unto David and unto Jesus.

So mind, body, soul is 3 distinct sources that can be hurt by sin. If we are not centered in Christ then any of these 3 can be off balance. Mind can experience mental illness, body can experience sickness, and soul can ultimately be destroyed if one remains in the off centered state of being. After all the road to Heaven is narrow and we do not have much room to wander off. But the road to Hell is wide, wide enough to catch all the wanderers.

DaveC · Dec 13, 2019

Hi! I am brand new to the site. I have been trying to find out how to enter a conversation about the Trinity. I think the identity of God is the most important issue. I want to be part of a continuing written dialogue, not a hit-or-miss live chat discussion. Can you direct me?

I enjoyed your thoughts. I like your symbols and their messages.

I would like to challenge you on reporting the Greatest Command from Mark 12. You only reported half of it. Christians often only report the second half of it. Jews would not fracture it. Jesus gave the whole thing as his Creed. It comes from Deuteronomy 6:4 and is the Jewish statement of faith.

The first part reads:
"Here O Israel. YHVH is our God. YHVH is one. You shall love YHVH your God with all your heart, mind and soul."

Jesus is making it crystal clear that he worships the same God of Abraham, Moses and David, etc. The Father. One person. Singular.

Jesus is the Son of God. Together they brought the world into being. YHVH the Father, working in union with his Son, the Expression of His Being, manifesting physical creation.

If Jesus was God he would have said so here. If Jesus thought God was three persons, he would have said so here. Rather, he reaffirmed the biblical God of Israel. The Bible says 800 times that "God is One". It never says "three".

The paragraph that follows gives us many ways to remember it and keep YHVH's oneness foremost in our thought.
We are marked with this. And it will matter in the End Time.

The Jews are put on earth to keep God's Divine Name, and to keep that "God is one". The Jewish people will never convert to a Trinity. Millions of our ancestors have surrendered to being burnt at the stake rather than accepting Greek reasoning.

The Trinity is only described in the Bible in one place, Revelation 14. The true believers will have their foreheads marked with the NAME of the One True God, YHVH. Those deceived will be marked with the NUMBER of the false God. That number will be a trinity of 6's. The clue given is that it will be the number of man. In Hebrew 6 is the number of man. So the false God 666, will be a concept of God who is 3 men. This sound to me strikingly similar to the Trinity that the Greek philosophers of the Roman Church gave us in the 4th Century; not the Bible.

People should really ask the Jews what this stuff means. Jews wrote the Bible.

The original Gospels have been found recently, written in the Hebrew language, along with a letter by Jerome who translated them into Greek. Jerome admits to making adjustments to make them fit to the beliefs of the Greeco/Roman church.

Will the existing Christian world be frustrated by the differences and try to discount the Hebrew version? It is hard to surrender a doctrine that you always believed and defended, which was taught to you by people who loved you. Or will people rejoice that Christ is opening the hidden truth to us as his appearance comes closer?

In Jesus' own words: "The hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such as his worshippers." I'm trying to believe Jesus' own words.

God bless the whole world! No exceptions! DaveC

Roughsoul1991 · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

Hi! I am brand new to the site. I have been trying to find out how to enter a conversation about the Trinity. I think the identity of God is the most important issue. I want to be part of a continuing written dialogue, not a hit-or-miss live chat discussion. Can you direct me?

I enjoyed your thoughts. I like your symbols and their messages.

I would like to challenge you on reporting the Greatest Command from Mark 12. You only reported half of it. Christians often only report the second half of it. Jews would not fracture it. Jesus gave the whole thing as his Creed. It comes from Deuteronomy 6:4 and is the Jewish statement of faith.

The first part reads:
"Here O Israel. YHVH is our God. YHVH is one. You shall love YHVH your God with all your heart, mind and soul."

Jesus is making it crystal clear that he worships the same God of Abraham, Moses and David, etc. The Father. One person. Singular.

Jesus is the Son of God. Together they brought the world into being. YHVH the Father, working in union with his Son, the Expression of His Being, manifesting physical creation.

If Jesus was God he would have said so here. If Jesus thought God was three persons, he would have said so here. Rather, he reaffirmed the biblical God of Israel. The Bible says 800 times that "God is One". It never says "three".

The paragraph that follows gives us many ways to remember it and keep YHVH's oneness foremost in our thought.
We are marked with this. And it will matter in the End Time.

The Jews are put on earth to keep God's Divine Name, and to keep that "God is one". The Jewish people will never convert to a Trinity. Millions of our ancestors have surrendered to being burnt at the stake rather than accepting Greek reasoning.

The Trinity is only described in the Bible in one place, Revelation 14. The true believers will have their foreheads marked with the NAME of the One True God, YHVH. Those deceived will be marked with the NUMBER of the false God. That number will be a trinity of 6's. The clue given is that it will be the number of man. In Hebrew 6 is the number of man. So the false God 666, will be a concept of God who is 3 men. This sound to me strikingly similar to the Trinity that the Greek philosophers of the Roman Church gave us in the 4th Century; not the Bible.

People should really ask the Jews what this stuff means. Jews wrote the Bible.

The original Gospels have been found recently, written in the Hebrew language, along with a letter by Jerome who translated them into Greek. Jerome admits to making adjustments to make them fit to the beliefs of the Greeco/Roman church.

Will the existing Christian world be frustrated by the differences and try to discount the Hebrew version? It is hard to surrender a doctrine that you always believed and defended, which was taught to you by people who loved you. Or will people rejoice that Christ is opening the hidden truth to us as his appearance comes closer?

In Jesus' own words: "The hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such as his worshippers." I'm trying to believe Jesus' own words.

God bless the whole world! No exceptions! DaveC

Jesus often times did say he was God as to why he was accused of blasphemy. Without currently going into much detail. John 1:1-14 is quite obvious the word was God and the word became flesh. John who was a disciple of Jesus.

And we have enough ancient manuscripts, fragments, and early church writings that we know with 98% accuracy that the Bibles we have is accurate and the 2% are small scribe errors and only 2 or 3 spots where a verse is added or taken away but we know this by cross examination of all material. And the errors or added verses like the end of mark does nothing to the main idea of scripture. So I do believe the Bible I hold is the accurate word of God. God has left us with 1000s of manuscripts and atleast 10,000 or more fragments.

DaveC · Dec 13, 2019

John 1 in the Greek really says:

“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Ho Theos.” (The God; God; The person God; a noun).

“And the Word was theos.” (God-like; divine; had the same characteristics of God; an adjective.)”

But Greek reasoning said it was OK to overlook the grammar and say that "The Word was God", that “Jesus is God”. Greek logic allows you to say that because Jesus has the character, the nature and the essence of God “he is God”. This defies the Greek text and is NOT Hebrew thinking.

Our Greek based Bibles have continued to be translated by Trinitarians who disregarded the grammar and continue to reworded it to make their understanding of the Trinity "clearer”. Thank God the original documents still exist.

A side point is that the original Hebrew Gospels call Jesus the “Son of God” in John 1. The Greek translators traded “Son” for “Word”.

There are a lot of Hebrew documents that the Roman Church burnt along with the Jewish Christians who preserved them. Fortunately some copies remained. I think that in time you will hear about them.

The theologies that the Protestants inherited from Constantine's church may be right, and I may be wrong. But if you know anything about history you must admit that there is a trail of blood behind the domination of the Roman doctrines, and the murder of millions of Christian Jews.

It sounds like you are very happy with what you believe, and much of it is right. If I shared more, I would be pushing and I don't want to do that.

If we both diligently seek truth, we will both get there.

Keep loving people, that's the most important, my brother. DaveC

Nehemiah6 · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

This was neither the time nor the place for Christ to present His deity to the Jews. But that does not mean that He did not do so at other times and other places. Are you familiar with those incidents?

DaveC said:

And yet the majority of Jews rejected their own Messiah. So what does that tell you? And they also killed and persecuted the prophets and apostles who wrote the Bible. So what does that tell you?

DaveC said:

But He did say so in Matthew 28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son [JESUS], and of the Holy Ghost:

As a matter of fact, all the apostles were Jews and they all believed that Jesus is God. He himself said that He is the "I AM" of the Old Testament (and God calls Himself I am). The New Testament is full of passages which clearly state that Jesus is God. That already makes two persons of the Trinity. And there are others passages which say that the Holy Spirit is God.

UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS. That is exactly what He said.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 13, 2019

Roughsoul1991 said:

You will need to carefully research the Star of David. Both the pentagram and the hexagram (the star of David or Magen David) are kabbalistic, occultic, magical symbols, having nothing to do with God. Even Encyclopedia Brittanica confirms this. The Star of David has no biblical or even Talmudic authority.

And when Stephen accused the Jews of being betrayers and murderers of Christ, he made reference to "the star of your god Remphan". Remphan (Rephan, Chiun, Saturn) was a pagan god, along with Moloch (who demanded the sacrifice of children).

Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon. (Acts 7:43)

Many Israelis may not be aware of all the implications of the Zionist Star of David. So this goes all the way back to idolatrous Egypt, and how the Israelites demanded a Golden Calf (see Acts 7:37-42) and then continued to practice idolatry under their kings until the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Solomon is said to have had communications with demons after he went into idolatry. Eventually the Kabbalah was written, and gave arise to sorcery and mysticism. The Kabbalah was considered dangerous by Jews.

oldhermit · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

In order to understand what John is saying in this verse, there are a couple of things you need to know about Greek syntax. There is no translational manipulation involved here regarding the absence of the definite article in the last clause. First, Koine Greek normally drops the article in a prepositional phrase. The absence of the article in a prepositional phrase is normal and doesn't mean anything. It is the INCLUSION of the article in a prepositional phrase that is unusual and therefore means something.

The prepositional phrase "εν αρχη" does not contain an article, but is still properly translated "in the beginning." The prepositional phrase "προς τον θεον," however, does include the article (τον). Since it would have been grammatically proper not to include it, then the inclusion of the article here means something. In general, the inclusion of an article in Greek when it is not expected means the writer is being specific. In this instance, John is being specific about a particular individual who is God. In order to fully understand how that effects this verse, we need to go to the last clause in the verse. To understand the implications of the last clause, you need to understand Greek syntax. First, Greek distinguishes the role a noun plays in a sentence by changing the case. In general, if the noun is the subject, it is in the nominative case. If it is the direct object, it is in the accusative case. However, there is a strange class of verbs that do not take a direct object, instead, they take a predicate. There are three verbs that do this in Koine Greek. This means that you have two nouns that are the same case (nominative), where one is the subject, and one is the predicate. So, if both are in the same case, how do you know which is the subject, and which is the predicate?

Here are the rules: Notice, I said these are rules. You can't ignore them, you can't change them, you can't remove them, and you can't add to them!
1. If both nouns have the article attached, then the first noun is the subject, the second noun is the predicate.
2. If NEITHER noun has the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
3. If one noun has an article, but the other does not, then the one WITH the article is the subject, and the one without the article is the predicate.

So in the phrase "και θεος ην ο λογος", we see that λογος has an article (o) and θεος does not. Thus, o λογος is the subject, while θεος is the predicate.

When translated into English, because λογος is the subject, we have to put it first. English has syntactical rules that must be followed as well. So, this is properly translated "And the word was God."

dodgingstones · Dec 13, 2019

The Gospel of John proclaims and defines the Holy Trinity.

To deny the Divinity of Christ, is to deny Christ. To deny Christ is to deny God. Oddly, people do, and that is why the road to he'll is so wide. It has to be to accommodate all those who deny Christ, God the Son.

Melach · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

Hi! I am brand new to the site. I have been trying to find out how to enter a conversation about the Trinity. I think the identity of God is the most important issue. I want to be part of a continuing written dialogue, not a hit-or-miss live chat discussion. Can you direct me?

I enjoyed your thoughts. I like your symbols and their messages.

I would like to challenge you on reporting the Greatest Command from Mark 12. You only reported half of it. Christians often only report the second half of it. Jews would not fracture it. Jesus gave the whole thing as his Creed. It comes from Deuteronomy 6:4 and is the Jewish statement of faith.

The first part reads:
"Here O Israel. YHVH is our God. YHVH is one. You shall love YHVH your God with all your heart, mind and soul."

Jesus is making it crystal clear that he worships the same God of Abraham, Moses and David, etc. The Father. One person. Singular.

Jesus is the Son of God. Together they brought the world into being. YHVH the Father, working in union with his Son, the Expression of His Being, manifesting physical creation.

If Jesus was God he would have said so here. If Jesus thought God was three persons, he would have said so here. Rather, he reaffirmed the biblical God of Israel. The Bible says 800 times that "God is One". It never says "three".

The paragraph that follows gives us many ways to remember it and keep YHVH's oneness foremost in our thought.
We are marked with this. And it will matter in the End Time.

The Jews are put on earth to keep God's Divine Name, and to keep that "God is one". The Jewish people will never convert to a Trinity. Millions of our ancestors have surrendered to being burnt at the stake rather than accepting Greek reasoning.

The Trinity is only described in the Bible in one place, Revelation 14. The true believers will have their foreheads marked with the NAME of the One True God, YHVH. Those deceived will be marked with the NUMBER of the false God. That number will be a trinity of 6's. The clue given is that it will be the number of man. In Hebrew 6 is the number of man. So the false God 666, will be a concept of God who is 3 men. This sound to me strikingly similar to the Trinity that the Greek philosophers of the Roman Church gave us in the 4th Century; not the Bible.

People should really ask the Jews what this stuff means. Jews wrote the Bible.

The original Gospels have been found recently, written in the Hebrew language, along with a letter by Jerome who translated them into Greek. Jerome admits to making adjustments to make them fit to the beliefs of the Greeco/Roman church.

Will the existing Christian world be frustrated by the differences and try to discount the Hebrew version? It is hard to surrender a doctrine that you always believed and defended, which was taught to you by people who loved you. Or will people rejoice that Christ is opening the hidden truth to us as his appearance comes closer?

In Jesus' own words: "The hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such as his worshippers." I'm trying to believe Jesus' own words.

God bless the whole world! No exceptions! DaveC

Jesus was God John 1:1

and no we shouldnt really ask the Christ rejecting jews what this stuff means. they dont know anything about the bible because they reject Christ and thats why have no spiritual wisdom. i dont care what some antichrist rabbis have to say i believe in Jesus. if i want to hear human teacher i go to christian teacher.
if its jew who believes in Jesus i will listen to him

before anyone claims im anti jewish im not. i love jewish people. im jewish on my mother's side of family

NayborBear · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

I agree with what you stated concerning John 1:1.

Paul agreed with this also!:
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Unfortunately, ones that believe like this, are rather few and far between on this site, and Christendom in general.

Unlike you, however?

I don't mind "pushing."

If it gets even "some" to realize that loving the Lord your God, with all your mind, soul, heart, with all your strength? Is not the same as loving your neighbor as yourself.

It's like telling Christians yer still riding yer bicycle with training wheels on them. And they seem quite content in keeping them on.

Hebrews 6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection (spiritual maturity); not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Anyways, I digress.

Welcome to CC, bro.

dodgingstones · Dec 13, 2019

So, 2 b clear... You are denying the Holy Trinity?

NayborBear · Dec 13, 2019

1 Corinthians 12
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Roughsoul1991 · Dec 13, 2019

John 8:49-58 New International Version (NIV)
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Jesus admitting his eternal nature and claiming the same name I am from God speaking to Moses.

Obviously by their reaction they understood what he had said.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 13, 2019

NayborBear said:

Anyone should be able to see that what this verse is saying is that had Jesus started His ministry with the declaration "I AM GOD" that would NOT have been *robbery* or the stealing or usurpation of the claim of deity. God the Father Himself calls Jesus "GOD" twice in Hebrews 1:8,9 which is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7:
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The following verses in this chapter tell us (from another quotation in the Psalms) that Jesus is God the Creator (see John 1:1-3). So if anyone denies the deity of Christ, he is in fact calling God a liar.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 13, 2019

Roughsoul1991 said:

So you though my correction of your misconception was *boring*? Just goes to show that some people don't care for the whole truth.

NayborBear · Dec 13, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

What "profit" a man "power to become sons of God", when one is of the "not by works" mindset?

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

DaveC · Dec 13, 2019

(the star of David or Magen David) are kabbalistic, occultic, magical symbols, having nothing to do with God. "the star of your god Remphan".

The Star of David is not the Star of Remphan. If you really did research you would have heard that the Star of Remphan was a five pointed star from Egypt. It is true that the ancient Hebrews worshipped the Pagan gods of their neighbors, and they put Remphan in their temple. But this was not the Star of David. Almost every symbol can be used for good meanings, or for bad meanings. Symbols have no power. They only have the meaning you give them. The web is full of "research" making other cultures look dangerous and demonic.

The Star of David has had a place in the hearts of Jewish people for millennia associated with racial identity, King David and the coming Messiah.

DaveC · Dec 13, 2019

dodgingstones said:

Yes, I deny that God is three persons. "Holy Trinity" and the "Mystery of the Trinity" are not in the Bible.

NayborBear · Dec 13, 2019

DaveC said:

Trying to be helpful. When replying to a poster's post? Hit the "reply" button at the lower right hand corner. Just below the

icon.

Helps readers know who it is yer responding to.

And, don't worry, if yer post was more of a "throwing it out there", as opposed, to replying to a particular post.

I've been known to "jump in" on "converstaions", a time or 50, myself.

DaveC · Dec 13, 2019

Roughsoul1991 said:

John 8:49-58 New International Version (NIV)
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Jesus admitting his eternal nature and claiming the same name I am from God speaking to Moses.

Obviously by their reaction they understood what he had said.

Trinity of God and trinity of Existence

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