Not By Works

Changed heart is not always a new heart...? Grabbing at straws there.

The implanted seed of the Spirit (new birth) that Saul received was NEGLECTED by Saul. This led to his downfall. Disobedience was made light of (1 Samuel 15)

No one will ever convince me that we can walk away from faith to the point of losing salvation because of the following truths which must be false if it is even a remote possibility...

a. If WE believe NOT, HE ABIDES faithful because HE cannot deny himself.

1. The Apostle includes HIMSELF with the use of WE
2. It is written unto BELIEVERS
3. CHRIST cannot deny HIS FAITH and RIGHTEOUSNESS which have been applied unto us, given as an irrevocable gift and imputed to our account.
4. JESUS is the SOURCE of our faith, he begins it, he finishes it, he COMPLETES it in US
5 HE LOSES NOTHING and KEEPS US BY HIS POWER by the ABOVE FAITH

The whole concept of losing salvation by walking away or losing faith absolutely contradicts SO MANY truths that it is sickening to me that ANY could hold to that fallacy.

A person that has BELIEVED has been BORN AGAIN spiritually FROM ABOVE and NOW possesses a SPIRIT that is ETERNALLY sealed in CHRIST and that DOES NOT SIN.

TO LOSE faith and hence salvation flies in the face of the above truths (a, 1-5)
It also DENIES the power of the GOD OF HEAVEN and what he states HE WILL DO which makes him into a LIAR.

My bible tells me clearly that whatsoever GOD DOES IT IS EVERLASTING....if he SAVES A MAN it is FOREVER.......

One of the most contradictory lies peddled by SATAN is that MAN is NOT SECURE in Christ.............!!!!!!!!

Good morning from New South Wales Rose HAHAHAH and keep swinging sister.......

AMEN...he has TRANSPOSED us into the KINGDOM of HIS dear SON....King Jimmy uses translated.....removed from one POSITION into another POSITION....

I'm not changing it. The Greek verb tenses and moods means the completed, past action of being made a partaker of Christ with continuing results is conditioned on IF the action of hold fast is done.

The action 'hold fast' determines if you have the results continuing of being made a partaker of Christ. But you have switched it around to mean you 'hold fast' since you have been made a partaker of Christ.

AMEN......the children of Israel....

a. Had applied the blood by faith and were delivered
b. Had the picture of immersion (red sea)
c. FAILED to enter the rest afforded believers in THIS LIFE by a lack of faith
d. Were chastened and made to wander the wilderness

and YET....

GOD NEVER LEFT THEM, HE...

a. Provided for them in the wilderness
b. His presence was SEEN night and day
c. He fed them
d. He "watered" them
e. He gave them leadership
f. He blessed them
g. And he raised up the NEXT generation which entered the REST afforded believers IN THIS LIFE BY FAITH USING a SAVIOR (JOSHUA) to LEAD them into the LAND and ESTABLISH THEM

MANY that peddle a losable salvation fail to acknowledge these truths....

He is one of the worst when it comes to conflating truths into a losable salvation and also twists and skews truths into his false doctrine.....just another Sea Perch, Fran, Ralph, JASON007, etc.......

lets try this a different way- 2 people go to church, get convicted, accept Christ, leave thinking they are now saved.

one person builds on that, begins to read the Bible regularly, pray, realize and confess sins, sincerely tries to lead a more Godly lifestyle.

the other person learns a few popular verses, throws up a token prayer now and then, does not pay much attention to their lifestyle.

now, it is possible that both of them , while at church that one time, had a emotional experience .

one built on that, grew In faith, became a true believer.

the other ignored that, did not build on it, and the flash flame of faith they had died out.

one is Saul, one is David.

you figure out which one is which.

I used to believe the way you do now and it’s a legitimate viewpoint. Jesus acknowledges that everyone will experience doubt; since God understands this full well, I lean on the fact that His grace is sufficient, especially during our times of weakness, regardless of the magnitude of that weakness.

I believe there is a difference.

A difference between those who persist in it and don't care two hoots and those persist in it yet hate hate it.

Let's look at the issue of alcohol and getting drunk.
Those who claim to be a believer.

A person who drinks to get drunk and does not give two hoots. It's good to get drunk and doesn't care about the consequences. Well questions should be asked. Why?
If they say "Its ok I can do it and it's covered" I wouldn't question salvation but if they maintain that stance then leave them to it.

Yet if a person drinks to get drunk and hates it and asks God for help to stop it then for me it's different. The questions would be different.

I walk with people in our church, it's part of my ministry.
I would seek to dig deeper.
Try to get to know the cause of the effect.

As a person who had a severe gambling problem and also slept around there was a reason. A cause of the effect. I hated it with a passion.
Tried harder not to do it.
Was told when I sought help "Bible says don't do so don't"
Stupid advice to give. If I could have stopped then why did I need to seek help to stop?
After all I prayed all the time for help, begged and implored God to help me stop.

When a mature Christian came alongside me and digged deeper the cause of the effect was I see identified and prayed through.

This needed healing and willingness to forgive.
Healing from sexual abuse, being rejected and thrown out at 14 by mother.
Fostered by a Christian family and being sexually abused by my foster dad.

So yes I believe that a believer can struggle with stuff like addiction, gossip and sexual immorality and lying.
But if they do they will hate it, in fact they may even accept it and still hate it.
They may even get to the stage I did and asked God to kill me so I knew where I was going.

But as brothers and sisters we must seek out and understand what's going on.

The following breaks my heart. Even now as I type this I have tears in my eyes.

I ask everyone I am given to walk with this question.

"Do you know that God loves you as much as he loves Jesus?

99% of those say "No"

When I tell them he does and quote the verse Jesus says it, they reject it.
They are not worthy, they are dirty rotten sinners and will never be good enough.
That is heartbreaking.

Jesus came for the broken hearted, the bruised Reed he wants to heal, the heavy laden, the dirty sinner.

We can be deceived that in fact it's not true. That God does not love us unless we conform. Is that true?


I want to see people released to be the kids he loves, know he loves them and want to be his kids and be secure in that and as a result want to be like him.

With regards to the 'ennial' things I have no idea along with pre/post and the others.

God bless.

Had a great time out.

Going to bed now.

God bless the rest of the day for you.

Of this I have no doubt.

Yes they disregard the obvious and make it far more complicated and conflate to make it fit their wrong doctrine.
Sea Perch aka PS?

OK, working with your analogy, you said both get convicted, both accept Christ, both leave thinking they are saved. Then you proceed into a sanctification role for one of the believers. So here is my question. When did this believer (pursuing sanctification) receive JUSTIFICATION? During the process? Or at the start?

If at the start, then so too should the other believer have been justified when he called upon Christ. Not so?

Gotta love society today.. Typing in large letters is perceived as yelling. YALL DONE LOST IT

I will continue typing with LARGE LETTERS if I please and WHAT is anyone gonna do about that HUH?

There is nothing in the text that implies the action stops. Either these Hebrew believers hold fast to the end and demonstrate that they have become partakers of Christ or else they fail to hold fast and demonstrate otherwise. There is no middle ground.

Amen!!!

And even when you lay this all out once again... they do not respond because they know there is no refutation.

Our will is not what keeps us saved... they seem to miss that all the time.

you are missing the point . ( as others have also told you).

the point is, that only TRUE believers are saved. not everyone who professes to believe does not really believe.

one is only justified if they TRULY believe.

Saul was never a true believer. God departed from Him.

David was a true believer. he committed adultery, conspired to have a man killed, and did not confess and ask for forgiveness until he was confronted. yet God never left him.

see the difference??

Salvation is not in view ... even though Judges would like it to be.

Well lets look at the above quoted Red text and post the scriptures and interpretation thereof:

2 Timothy 2

11 This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
If we nail our old man to the cross (Romans 6), we consider ourselves dead to sin but alive in Christ Jesus

12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
We are to Endure to the end...…..Rev 2v7, Rev2v11, Rev2v17, Rev2v25-26, Rev3v5, Rev 3v12, Rev3v21

If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
Peter denied Him 3 times. He repented and confirmed his Love 3 times to Jesus on the beach (feed my sheep...)

13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
Matthew Henry says this best:
(v. 13): If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself. He is faithful to his threatenings, faithful to his promises; neither one nor the other shall fall to the ground, no, not the least, jot nor tittle of them. If we be faithful to Christ, he will certainly be faithful to us. If we be false to him, he will be faithful to his threatenings: he cannot deny himself, cannot recede from any word that he hath spoken, for he is yea, and amen, the faithful witness. Observe, (1.) Our being dead with Christ precedes our living with him, and is connected with it: the one is in order to the other; so our suffering for him is the way to reign with him. You that have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel Mt. 19:28 . (2.) This is a faithful saying, and may be depended on and ought to be believed. But, (3.) If we deny him, out of fear, or shame, or for the sake of some temporal advantage, he will deny and disown us, and will not deny himself, but will continue faithful to his word when he threatens as well as when he promises.

The difference was in both Saul's case and David's case, they were confronted by a prophet of God. David immediately owned up to it. Saul dodged and squired and tried to find any and every avenue not to accept accountability. That's the difference.

Any doctrine that doesnt fit OSAS becomes a defense of "well he/she wasnt really a believer to start off with" depite dozens of scriptures talking about believers falling away. Its a default protective mode to not accept the truth of this matter.

You didnt answer the question I posed to your original analogy: Here it is again:

OK, working with your analogy, you said both get convicted, both accept Christ, both leave thinking they are saved. Then you proceed into a sanctification role for one of the believers. So here is my question. When did this believer (pursuing sanctification) receive JUSTIFICATION? During the process? Or at the start?

If at the start, then so too should the other believer have been justified when he called upon Christ. Not so?