Seeking Biblical contradictions.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Robo36

Active member
#1
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#1
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#3
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#3
Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#4
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#4
Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Also, "And as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment."
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#5
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#5
John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
Click to expand...
I think that’s appropriate and true. Jesus was able to ascend on His own as Enoch and Elijah was “Taken up” by the grace of God.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#6
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#6
Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Read John146’s post. That pretty much answers your question.
 
Bingo

Bingo

Well-known member
#7
Feb 9, 2019
9,228
4,756
113
#7
3418_thumbnail - Copy - Copy - Copy (4) - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy.jpg Agree.png
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#8
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#8
John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
Click to expand...
Regarding the Two Witnesses [though a future setting, of course (note: in John 3:13 it is "PERFECT tense")], if you believe the Two Witnesses are indeed two persons, Revelation 11:12 says "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up [imperative] hither. And they ascended up [G305 anebēsan - ACTIVE] to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9 (using a different verb, G1869... but is there "passive," still)

:unsure:
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#9
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#9
TheDivineWatermark said:
Regarding the Two Witnesses [though a future setting, of course (note: in John 3:13 it is "PERFECT tense")], if you believe the Two Witnesses are indeed two persons, Revelation 11:12 says "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up [imperative] hither. And they ascended up [G305 anebēsan - ACTIVE] to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9 (using a different verb, G1869... but is there "passive," still)

:unsure:
Click to expand...
Did they not have the assistance from God calling them up hither? God speaks, it happens.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#10
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#10
John146 said:
Did they not have the assistance from God calling them up hither? God speaks, it happens.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Click to expand...
Well, that's why I said,

Now, I wouldn't say they did this "without help [from God]"... but I'm just saying that it does say "they ascended up [ACTIVE]" rather than "went up [in a passive sense]" or "was[/were] taken up [passive]" like is said of Jesus in Acts 1:9
Click to expand...


[note to readers: "caught up / harpazo / harpagēsometha [PASSIVE]" ;) 1Th4:17]
 
StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

Well-known member
#11
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#11
Robo36 said:
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Click to expand...
Personally I don't worry about it....I don't expect perfection from anything wrought of human hands, even that which has divine inspiration. I do realize that many will seek any flaw, perceived or otherwise, and upon finding one will use it as an excuse to tear down an entire structure.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#12
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#12
John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
Click to expand...
Should we start a new thread for thisvfollow up question?
In hebrews 11, the author gave emphasis that enoch did not taste death for he was taken by God...
Why he didnt with regards to elijah?
 
R

Robo36

Active member
#13
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#13
John146 said:
Enoch nor Elijah ascended into heaven, but rather they were taken up. Big difference. Man, on his own, cannot ascend into heaven. He always needs the help of God.
Click to expand...
Taken up to where?
 
R

Robo36

Active member
#15
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#15
StrugglingTilMyReward said:
Personally I don't worry about it....I don't expect perfection from anything wrought of human hands, even that which has divine inspiration. I do realize that many will seek any flaw, perceived or otherwise, and upon finding one will use it as an excuse to tear down an entire structure.
Click to expand...
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
 
R

Robo36

Active member
#16
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#16
John146 said:
To heaven? Is that wrong? You trying to catch me?;)
Click to expand...
"Catch you" in what?

How does your answer correlate with John 3: 13, No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#17
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#17
Robo36 said:
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
Click to expand...
Good on you for asking questions, nothing wrong with that.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#18
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#18
Robo36 said:
"Catch you" in what?

How does your answer correlate with John 3: 13, No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
Click to expand...
No one has ascended into heaven. They were all caught up by the Lord. Only Jesus can ascend into heaven.

That's exactly where I thought you'd go, therefore "catch me" in a false statement.
 
R

Robo36

Active member
#19
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#19
John146 said:
No one has ascended into heaven. They were all caught up by the Lord. Only Jesus can ascend into heaven.

That's exactly where I thought you'd go, therefore "catch me" in a false statement.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your answer. "Caught up by the Lord" to where?
 
StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

Well-known member
#20
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#20
Robo36 said:
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I wasn't meaning to refer to you specifically....I see it in terms of the broader culture, and I get contradictions tossed at me all the time by friends and colleagues...as in 'how can you believe the Bible when....yada yada yada'. I think there are lots of people out there, who upon finding a flaw or an inconsistency (seemingly or otherwise) that they then seek to tear down the entire structure...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.