Soul Sleeping? What does scripture say happens to us when we die.

To start off with I want to say that "THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE PLACE/SCRIPTURE IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT TELLS US OR GUARANTEES US THAT WE GO STRIEGHT TO HEAVEN AS SOON AS WE DIE.
The word sleep and rest are used many times in scripture and Christ used the word sleep to describe a dead persons state of being.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
At this point we know that Lazarus was already dead and in the grave.
Joh 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Now we all know that Lazarus was in fact supposed to be dead. But Christ stated that Lazarus was sleeping. So the question is, Why would Jesus describe Lazarus as being in a state of sleep and not in a state of death?? The answer is that the body was in fact dead and beginning to rot but the soul of Lazarus was not dead. It was resting just as the Bible says Lazarus was doing after he died.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Notice how this verse says that Lazarus was "carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom" after he died. But the rich man was not carried by angels after he died. Luke 16:22 simply says that the rich man was buried. Lazarus was also buried but the difference is what happened to the soul after the body died. The soul of Lazarus who had embraced the Gospel and was saved, was carried away by angels to Abraham's bosom where scripture says he was "comforted". But the soul of the rich man didn't go to the Bosom of Abraham, he went to a place of torment which is called Gehenna.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Notice how Lazarus doesn't speak a single word throughout the conversation between the rich man and Abraham. That is because Lazarus was sleeping just as John 11:11 says he was. In fact Jesus stated that it was time for Him to awaken Lazarus out of sleep.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Here is another time when Christ describes a person who had died as being in a state of sleep and Jesus actually declares that the Damsel is not dead but is actually asleep.
Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
In the book of Daniel scripture state that those Who sleep in the dust shall awaken.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
In 1 Samuel King Saul new that the soul of Samuel was not dead but was only asleep when he asked the witch of Endor bring Samual UP.
1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him UP, whom I shall name unto thee.
1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. Even the witch knew that the soul of Samual could be BROUGHT UP from the dead.
And when Samuel was awakened and brought up he was upset because he had been disturbed.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. In this verse the word "disquieted" means "disturbed". Which tells us that the soul of Samual was in a place of great comfort but his body was in the grave rotting.
In the book of Daniel God tells Daniel to go his way and rest. God dosn't tell Daniel to go his way and die, God tells Daniel to go and rest.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. In this verse the word"rest" translated from the Hebrew means "sleep".
As we can see from this verse, Daniel is right know "resting" and is not dead though his body has rotted in the Grave. We can also see from what this verse says that Daniel will stand in his lot at the end of days. In other words Daniel will return and Prophecy once more during the end of days. I believe that Daniel is one of the two witnesses.
When Jesus was no the cross He told the thief that he would be with Jesus in Paradise.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
So the question is "Where is Paradise located?" According to Paul Christ first descended down into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
So this verse is telling us that the location of Paradise is in the lower parts of the earth.
We need to remember that when the NT was written it focused Jewish customs and beliefs. The Jewish belief was that Paradise was that part of Hades was the abode of the souls of the pious until Resurrection day. This means that the Jewish people believed that when we are saved and we die we do not go to heaven but actually stay in Paradise until Christ returns to raise us from the grave.
Hence the parable about the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus who was saved and who embraced the Gospel died and was carried away by angels to the Bosom of Abraham which is also known as Paradise.
Here is a question I like to ask folks, If when we die our body goes back to the dust from which it came from.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the rich man doing roasting in hell with eyeballs and a tongue???
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. The body of the rich man stayed in the grave where it turned back into the dust from which it came, but the soul of the rich man could feel all of the pain and torments just as though he still had a body of flesh
If when we die our body turns back to the dust, how could the rich man have had eyeballs and a tongue and how could he feel heat and torments???
The answer is that if when we die we are in Christ we do not go to heaven. We go to Pardise/The Bosom of Abraham just like Lazarus, the thief and Christ did before He was raised from the grave by God. And we sleep in Paradise until the Resurrection DAY. If we are unrepentant like the rich man was we go immediatly to Gehenna which was where the rich man was placed after his death. Our bodies die and rot but our souls live on to suffer pain and torments or we are comforted just as Lazrus was.

No need to scream!
The Book of Matthew chapter 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The Book of Ecclesiastes chapter 12: 6.Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, 7before the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. 8“Futility of futilities,” says the Teacher. “Everything is futile!”

“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” 1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV 1900)

John 5.24

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Jesus told the thief on the Cross who had a repentant heart ', "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24 is speaking of those who are living and who hear the word of Christ and believe on Him/God will have everlasting life. In other words the minute we are baptized and given control of our lives over to Christ we have inherited eternal life and we will never suffer condemnation ever again. John 5:24 has nothing to do with what happens to us the moment after the breath of life leaves us and returns to God who gave us the breath of life when we born.
Even now as I am writing this I already have eternal and everlasting life.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. If Christ is our example then we will be like Him. So what happened to Christ when He died on the Cross??? Christ first descended DOWN into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth.
As we all now Christ was raised from the Grave by God after three days.
John 5:24 doesn't have anything to do with happens to us the second after we die and everything to do with committing ourselves to Christ. Besides we must be in our graves before we can be raised from the Grave and if we are already in heaven when Christ returns, What is the point of raising us from the grave if we are already in heaven where we are supposed to meet Christ after He raises us from the grave???

Do Believers Have a Body in Their Intermediate State?
From the time believers die, until they return with Christ when He sets up His kingdom, they will be in some conscious form in the intermediate, or "in between" state. Exactly what that form consists of has been an object of much discussion among believers. There are three main views:

Option 1: Disembodied Spirit

The believer is conscious as a disembodied spirit - similar to angels who have no physical form. Their glorified body is received at the resurrection.

Option 2: Temporary Body

The believer has a temporary body while waiting for their glorified body.

Option 3: Glorified Body

The believer receives their glorified body at death. There is no waiting for a general resurrection of the dead.

1. Disembodied Spirit

There are many Bible scholars who believe that, upon death, people become disembodied spirits awaiting the resurrection. Consequently there are three steps for the believer: this earthly body, a disembodied state after death, and finally a resurrected body when Christ returns. The disembodied state is far better than living in this body because the believer is with Christ. Yet it is short of all the things that God has promised.

Christ First

The Scripture says that Christ was the first to receive a resurrection body. Paul wrote.



The righteous will receive their bodies some time in the future. If the saints had received their permanent body upon death, then Abraham, Moses, and the rest of the Old Testament believers, would have been resurrected before Christ. But the Scripture says that Christ was the first.

Still To Come

In several passages, Paul makes it clear that the transformation of our bodies is still future.



He wrote about the instantaneous change.


We will have a glorious body like His.


The righteous do not receive their permanent bodies at death. This will have to wait until Christ comes for His people. Hence, there is an interval of time between death and the resurrected state. Resurrection is in the future "at the last trump."

2. Temporary Body At Death

Another theory says that, at death, believers receive a temporary body. They understand this from the following statement of Paul.



It is argued that Paul's desire was to be clothed with some, temporary, intermediate body. He did not want to be in a disembodied state. According to this view, the three step process would be: an earthly body, a temporary body, and then a glorified body. The glorified body only comes at the resurrection.

3. Glorified Body Received At Death

There is also the view that the believer receives their glorified body upon death - they are instantaneously resurrected. This position says there is no waiting period between death and the new body that God has promised believers. The biblical support for this belief is found in 2 Corinthians 5:1-10. It is thought that Paul teaches the resurrected body is received upon death in this passage.



According to this understanding of Paul, there is no disembodied state between the destruction of our present earthly house, and God's provision of an eternal house. There is no fear of being unclothed. Therefore, when the earthly tent is destroyed, believers immediately receive their new, God-made building. Resurrection is immediate. The resurrection of the dead in the afterlife is existent, but hidden from public view. It will be revealed when Christ appears. Paul wrote.



Believers will be revealed with their resurrected bodies when Christ comes. They will not receive them at that time.

Why Wait?

It is argued that there is no reason for the believer to wait for their resurrection body. If the believer will ultimately receive a glorified body, why the wait? Since they are already conscious in heaven in the presence of Christ, why must they wait to receive what He has promised?

No Understanding Of Time

Furthermore, those in the intermediate state would have no understanding of time as we know it. Since there is no real reason for them to wait to receive their glorified body, it is argued that God gives it to them immediately upon their death.

At Second Coming

Therefore, at the Second Coming, all the resurrected saints are brought together and publicly displayed, not raised at that time.

Response

The problem with this view is that it contradicts 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 with respect to the time of the new bodies for the believers. Both these passages emphasize the old bodies of all believers will be changed when Christ returns, not before. To Paul, the resurrection of the body is something future for everyone. Jesus also said the dead will be raised in the future.



Not That Concerned

The New Testament is not that clear as to the form of the dead in the intermediate state. The main concern of the Bible is with the ultimate destiny of believers and their glorified body. The biblical attitude can be summed up by a statement from Paul.



Ultimately all believers are with the Lord upon death and are enjoying wonderful surroundings. Beyond this we cannot be certain.

Summary

It is clear from the Scripture that believers immediately go into the presence of Christ upon death. As to what form they exist in the intermediate state, it is not that clear. Christians hold to three different views.

1. Believers are disembodied spirits upon death.

2. A temporary body is given to all believers at death.

3. The believer receives their resurrection body immediately upon death.

The Bible is not that concerned about the state of the believer before the resurrection, it emphasizes the resurrected and glorified state.

Great scripture. We must be in the grave so that Christ can raise us from the grave. Scripturally speaking 1 Thess 4:14 declares that we will be raised from the grave just like Christ was and there is no scripture anywhere in the Word of God that says anything about any kind of spirit remaining in the grave if we go to heaven as soon as we die.

Great point! So where did Jesus go when He died?? Where is Paradise located?? We know by scripture that Christ did not ascend to heaven when He died. Christ descended DOWN to the lower reaches of the earth. Which means "Paradise is located DOWN in the lower reaches of the earth. Not in heaven. Paradise and heaven are located in two different locations.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Thank you for quoting ALL of 2 Cor. 5:8. Most folks manipulating context this verse by quoting only "to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord". And when the words"willing rather" are removed from the verse the context of the verse is cheapened and changed to say something i't say nor what God intended for it to speak to us.
At all times we must always take into account the entire verse and 2Cor 5:8 is not talking about what happens to us at the point of death. 2 Cor. 5:8 is appealing to the living in that as a believer I willing rather to be absent from my body, and to be present with my Lord. But I am not absent from my body so I must live my life the best I can for Christ until I am absent from my body, and to be present with my Lord.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I respect you and your opinion but I also respectfully disagree. I am not going to change your mind and you’re not going to change my mind. We will agree to disagree and I will always rejoice for you knowing that you have faith in Jesus Christ. Peace be with you.

I am very able to agree to disagree and still love my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Mk 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

That the spirits of believers who die go immediately to be in the presence of the Lord is exactly what scripture states!

Why do you people always claim that scripture doesn't say something on a specific Biblical topic, when it absolutely does?

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Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. - 2 Cor.5:6

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. - Philippians 1:23

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In both scriptures, we understand that Paul is speaking about his spirit being in the body vs. his spirit departing from the body at the time of death. The key to understand that Paul is speaking about the death of his body and the departure of his spirit, is found in the very first part of the verse which says "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." To die would be in reference to the death of this body and the immediate departure of the spirit to be in the presence of Christ.

And in case anyone attempts to interpret these scriptures as referring to the resurrection, this is easily be debunked. And that because the resurrection has to do with the spirit returning to the same body and standing up again, which is the definition of the word anastasis (ana= up again and histemi=to stand). Properly, to stand up again in a physical body. In opposition Paul is referring to departing from the body at the time of death.

Those in Christ who die, their spirits depart and go to be in the presence of the Lord. When the unfaithful die, their spirits depart and go down to Sheol/Hades in torment in flame where they will be resurrected with their spirits being released from Hades and will stand before God to be judged for their sins at the great white throne judgment.

"While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Jesus ascended and was seated at the right hand of God was now standing in honor of Stephen to receive his spirit.

The reference to "sleep" is only regards to the body and not the spirit. The body sleeps in the dust of the earth. However, the spirit is conscious and aware in the presence of the Lord.

Repent and stop teaching these false teachings!

There is no need to troll to promote the Soul Sleep doctrine. If your wish to hang on to your false doctrines, you are free to do so. Just don't try to promote them.

Since you want to see one Scripture passage which CONTRADICTS your belief, here it is:

2 CORINTHIANS 5:
EVERY BELIEVER WILL BE IN HEAVEN UPON DEATH
4 For we that are in this tabernacle [this human body] do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. [Meaning that mortality might to be changed to immortality]

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: [Who is in Heaven]

7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [Note: The Lord is in Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father]

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

This sounds like 7th Day Adventist doctrine.

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8

In the Old Testament the saints may have slept for Jesus did not shed His blood yet for any person to go to heaven, and Jesus said no person has ascended to heaven yet until the man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven.

So Lazarus and the girl would of slept for Jesus was alive on earth and the man Christ Jesus did not shed His blood yet and must be the first one to go to heaven before any person can go to heaven.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This is when Jesus resurrected from the dead and told Mary not to touch Him probably because He had to ascend to heaven first to apply the blood there like the High Priest in the temple on the mercy seat.

So He was going to go up and not down in the earth which the wicked shall go in to the lower parts of the earth and Jesus conquered death and hell, and went to preach to the prisoners there.

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jesus then came back from ascending to heaven and then Thomas could touch Him.

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Then He was on earth for 40 days and then ascended to heaven which a cloud received Him so He went up from the earth which some people think Abraham's bosom is in the earth but higher than hell, but Jesus went to heaven above the earth.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Which to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and since the Lord is in heaven then the saints would be in heaven and would not be sleeping.

It would not be the new Jerusalem the new earth and heaven but it is heaven which would probably be the third heaven where God dwells with the angels.

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Paul said if he departs which he perishes in the flesh he will be with Christ not sleeping, and Christ is in heaven so Paul would be in heaven.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

The fifth seal happens while there are saints on earth, and the saints under the altar ask Jesus when He will avenge them which He said when all the saints are with Him from off the earth, so the saints under the altar have to be in heaven for that is where Jesus is at and that is where the altar is at.

The souls of the saints are under the altar and they are speaking to Jesus not sleeping while there is still saints on the earth and Jesus has not put down the wicked yet, and the altar is before the throne of God so the saints have to be in heaven with Jesus and not sleeping.

And a few other cults.

I didn’t know what it was about the 19th century that spawned these groups like JW and Mormonism. At least 7DA believe in the Christ of the Bible.

Ok so I have a problem with the scripture you quoted. Here is what you quoted.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Now here is what the KJV, the NKJV, the Geneva Bible and my JP Green Lnterlineal Bible says
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
So what happened to the words "Willing Rather"? By taking out the words "willing rather" the context and the massage God is trying to teach us is changed to the point that the verse you quoted is corrupted. Mr. Strong put the Strong's Exhuastive Concordance together over a period of 35 years during which time Mr. Strong did an extensive and exhaustive study of the original languages of the Hebrew, the Greek and the Chaldean in his efforts to produce an accurate Bible Dictionary with Lexicons and integrity. But you couldn't us the Strongs to research the verse you quoted in line 6 because the words "willing rather" have been removed from the verse.
So the verse you quoted in line 6 is a corrupted verse, which means the whole bible version you have quoted from is corrupted so that even if you wanted to you could look up the words "willing rather" in the Strong's.
The verse you quoted in line 8 is the non-corrupted version of 2Cor 5:8. However you are have misinterpreted or read something into the verse that simply isn't there.
The verse was meant for the living and speaks nothing at all about what happens to us the moment the breath of life goes out of us and goes back to God where it came from.
I am living and I would "willing rather" to be absent from my body and to be present with my Lord in heaven" But since I have not yet died and been raised from the grave. I am stuck here on earth in the flesh with the desire to be absent from my body and to my Lord in heaven. Now there come a day when we get raised from the grave and at that point we will become absent from our bodies and present with Christ.
Otherwise the words grave, die, dead, heaven, going to heaven are not mentioned in 2 Cor. 5:8 and the verse says not one word about what happens to us after we die. You have transformed the verse in your mind to say what you want it to say rather then face the truth of what the verse actually says. Because in 2 Cor. 5:8 the true context contradicts what you have been taught and have been believing for many years. Just like a lot of folks.
You stated "EVERY BELIEVER WILL BE IN HEAVEN UPON DEATH" But I don't see any of those words written in any of the verses you have quoted and I am confident that you will not ever find these words written just as you have written them anywhere in the Word Of God or even something similar. How do I know?? Because I relentlessly searched the Bible for what happens to us when we die and could not find any evidence or scripture that says that we go to heaven before we are resurrected by Christ.

Those cults you mentioned did not exist until America was settled and what they did was take a few scriptures out of the bible and created a denomination out of them. In doing so they actually got some of their beliefs right but most of what they believe is false and twisted doctrine to suit what they want to believe rather then what is.