The Seed of Abraham

If you trace Israel from its roots, you can see Abraham circumcised his 300+ soldiers. Among them Ishmael was his only blood relative. But all became his covenant seed through circumcision (Genesis 17:11–13). They called them Hebrews at this point (Exodus 9:1).

When Jesus arrived, God no longer needed the physical unbelieving nation to preserve the true seed. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, by it removing the only means of physical group membership. Only believers remained as biblical Israel under Christ (Colossians 1:18 Galatians 6:16NIV).

Into this Israel God grafts gentile believers (Romans 11:17).

And only in Christ are the broken off reattached by faith (Romans 11:23). God promises this in honor of the patriarchs (Romans 11:28). Paul uses himself as an example of a broken off Jew reattached to Israel through faith in Christ (Romans 11:1).

Paul defines Jesus as Israel today. First he says he is Abraham’s seed (Galatians 3:16), already defined as Israel in the Old Testament (Exodus 3:18; 1 Samuel 13:19).

This includes believers in him also called the Church (Galatians 3:29). And Matthew identifies Jesus as Israel. He says “… (Jesus) was there (in Egypt) until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15).

Matthew referred to Hosea who said “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1). So Matthew identifies Jesus as the Israel whom the Father loved and called out of Egypt in a double fulfillment.

Also agreeing with Paul who says Jesus is Abraham’s seed, and not physical seed (Romans 9:8).

But those Jews who reject Christ, exist today only because of their hatred of him.

The Pharisees who escaped Jerusalem’s in AD 70 take credit for today’s brand of Judaism*.

*According to the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, the Pharisees are today’s Jews.

“With the destruction of the Temple (70 A.D.) the Sadducees disappeared altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands of the Pharisees. Henceforth, Jewish life was regulated by the Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older priestly tradition (Abot 1:1). Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and the life and thought of the Jew for all the future.” The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia Edited by Isadore Singer

God told Abraham that His seed (Christ, according to Paul Galatians 3:16) would come through Isaac

Your verses do not support your assertions. There is a passage about an Egyptians son not keeping the Sabbath and references to strangers among the people. I have also read about strangers among the people having genealogical records of the non-Israelite ancestors they descended from up until the first century. The Bible does not call them 'Hebrews.' You are just promoting a theory and putting some Bible verses in the paragraph that do not support it.



Galatians do not say that Gentile believers are the 'Israel of God'. In Romans the idea of being a Jew inwardly is in the context of dealing with the issue of those who are Jews outwardly, not Gentile Christians.

You cannot show one verse that unambiguously calls Gentile believers 'Israel' or includes them in 'Israel.' In Romans 10-11, they are not the same group. 'Israel' in that passage includes those who are not in the remnant, the blinded, the ones who are enemies concerning the Gospel. In Romans 11, the blindness happens to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. It refers to two groups. In II Corinthians 3, the children of Israel are blinded, but when he shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.



So I see the way that you arrive at doctrine is to read things into verses that are not there. The Israelites were grafted into the olive tree. The Gentiles were grafted into the wild olive three. Israelites who did not believe were broken off. Paul still calls Gentiles grafted into the tree 'Gentiles' in the passage, but he does not call them 'Israel'. If he does, show me. The only think you can do is assume a reference to Israel in the passage includes Gentile believers. It's based on assumption, not actual scripture.



Paul also says that it will happen. Israel shall be saved. The Deliverer shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.



Faulty logic. Asparagus is a vegetable. Broccoli is a vegetable. By your logic, broccoli must be asparagus. Nathaniel referred to Jesus as the 'King of Israel.' Jesus called him an 'Israelite indeed'. You wouldn't say that Nathaniel was Jesus, would you?



I think you are missing a little in your understanding of the apostolic hermeneutic. Various aspects of the history of Israel pointed forward to Jesus Christ. Quite literally, the people of Israel came out of Egypt. The prophecy was prophetic of Christ, also, who spent time in Egypt just as the nation did. Matthew leaves the portion about Israel out of his quote.


There was a generation between Abraham and Israel. Abraham's next generation in the lineage was Isaac. But Paul is not calling Jesus Isaac or Israel. The seed promise looked forward to Christ, though there was a fulfillment in Isaac through whom Christ would later come.



That doesn't make sense. They exist like the rest of us because of the mercy and kindness of God. We all depend on God for our next breath. We don't depend on hatred of Christ for our next breath.



That doesn't make sense either because they did not know the future. You have your reasoning backwards.



That sounds fairly accurate, though the Pharisee Judaism of today was influenced, probably, more by the Hillel school, not the typically more stringent and less-friendly-to-Gentiles Shammai version that was dominant in the scenes we read about in the gospels and Acts.

But Jews still exist and there are promises in passages like Romans 11 and in the Old Testament that are yet to be fulfilled. Even some amil supercessionists can see future salvation for Israel in Romans 11.

So are you saying Abraham disobeyed God and didn't circumcise his servants?

No I am not saying that . I am saying you have no evidence that they were called Hebrews or Israelites in scripture. Abraham was descended from Eber.

It's in the OP. Read slowly and carefully.

Clearly refuted already.

Refute it here so all can see.

Look up. Second post in the thread. The verses you quote do not support your argument. You just guess. You guess that the mixed multitude are called Israel. The Torah refers to strangers. Someone stoned for violating the sabbath was the son of an Egyptian.

Romans 11 uses 'Israel' to refer to both blinded Israelites and the remnant of Israel. Gentile Christians are called Gentiles. You do not have scripture that supports your argument.

In another thread, you argue that if Jesus is Abraham's seed, Jesus must be Israel. Jesus is clearly an Israelite. But Jesus also said this of the Pharisees in John 8:37.

I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Jesus was not calling the Pharisees 'Jesus.' He is the seed of Abraham. They were the seed of Abraham. If Israel is the seed of Abraham, that doesn't mean Jesus=Israel. Many of your arguments are guesswork and assumptions.