Is it a sin to drink alcohol

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WithinReason

WithinReason

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#41
Feb 21, 2020
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#41
Melach said:
deuteronomy 14:26 is opinion?
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Strawman. I never said Deuteronomy 14:26 is "opinion", and never would say such a thing. My position, as scripture's position, is that you are in error in regards what the text means in its context. But no one who disagrees with my position has asked for my study. So why should I provide it to those who will not bother to read and study to show themselves approved unto God? Those persons couldn't even handle a small study on 1 John 5:7 (a single text), in another location, what makes you think that they would desire a thorough study on 'wine' in the whole Bible?
 
WithinReason

WithinReason

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#42
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#42
posthuman said:
you're not as smart as you present yourself to be, m8.

direct observational evidence: your response disregarded all the scripture in Melach's post, and in summation called it 'opinion'
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Not at all, as I said (which you decidedly did not cite),

WithinReason said:
... My study, indepth, addresses all of it., but you will never know it, as you stated you did not desire to know it.
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I asked if any desired to see that study. Instead of answering they decided to go to a scripture which they thought teaches what they practice. I disregarded nothing. It was already answered before they ever said a word and I asked them if they wanted to see such. Their silence was deafening.
 
W

William25

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Always wanting to learn more.
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Dave-L

Dave-L

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#45
Jesus turned water into wine. Teetotalers turn that into grape juice.
 
Melach

Melach

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#46
Mar 28, 2019
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#46
WithinReason said:
Strawman. I never said Deuteronomy 14:26 is "opinion", and never would say such a thing. My position, as scripture's position, is that you are in error in regards what the text means in its context. But no one who disagrees with my position has asked for my study. So why should I provide it to those who will not bother to read and study to show themselves approved unto God? Those persons couldn't even handle a small study on 1 John 5:7 (a single text), in another location, what makes you think that they would desire a thorough study on 'wine' in the whole Bible?
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tell us what deuteronomy 14:26 really means then. i looked at all translations and the hebrew and it says the same thing.
 
Melach

Melach

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#47
Mar 28, 2019
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#47
WithinReason said:
Would you rather it be a private study, so as not to burden this thread. It is many, many pages in length.
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let this be a warning sign. if you need multiple pages to explain bible verses about strong drink and wine and why they dont mean what historically they always meant during that time and even in recent times.......... you might be in error and deep in tradition my guy.

but as always im open to correction. so if you got it, bring it and i will gladly accept as i said i dont drink at all now so either way doesnt change my life.
 
Melach

Melach

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#48
Mar 28, 2019
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#48
MattforJesus said:
They love God but they love to drink alcohol

Well thanks a lot for now we got to hear people from the world saying the Christians are hypocrites and do not act like Jesus and then the world slips farther and farther from God for they stray more from God and the Bible because of the hypocrisy of many who claim Christ.
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Jesus drank wine too so...
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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#49
Dec 30, 2019
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#49
MOC said:
God's word has much to say about the consumption of fermented and unfermented wine.
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You did not get off to a very good start here. Moses talks about the wine and the new wine but Jesus really explains this in way that is clear and not hidden. First Jesus talks about putting new wine in a new wine skin. You can not put new wine in a old wine skin. This means we need to be born again and a new creation in God. Then Jesus talks about the wedding on the third day when He turns the water into wine. We are the Bride of Christ and after the Church is gathered together there will be a wedding feast.

Moses tells us: "So Israel dwells securely; the fountain of Jacob lives untroubled in a land of grain and new wine, where even the heavens drip with dew." (Deut33:28) The fountain of Jacob is a reference to abundance. So from the beginning we have the grain, the new wine & the dew of Heaven.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

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MOC said:
Without modern sanitation, the water was filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants.
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The river of life flows from the throne of God into the Crystal Sea. The tree of life is planted along the river of life. The Stagnant water is what they call religiosity. This was fresh clean water at one time but it becomes stagnant because there is no outlet.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#51
John 2:6 - Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it. 9 When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom. 10 And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!”

Now why would every man at the beginning set out good wine and after the guests have well drunk, then the inferior?
 
A

Adstar

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#52
Jul 24, 2016
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#52
MOC said:
God's word has much to say about the consumption of fermented and unfermented wine. In ancient times wine could be fermented grape juice mixed with water, thus making it somewhat diluted. Fermented wine could also be made without adding water and making it more intoxicating. The Bible often describes this type of wine as "strong drink". Without question the Bible condemns drinking to the point where a person is drunk. As Christians we are commanded to not let our bodies be enslaved by anything (1 Corinthians 6: 12) and getting drunk with alcohol would certainly fall under this category. Christians should not do anything that hinders the Holy Spirit's influence on us. A person who consumes alcohol to the point where they are drunk has let the alcohol influence their decision making instead of being "filled by the spirit". Alcohol by itself is not tainted by sin, it is the drunkenness and addiction to it that a Christian must absolutely stay away from. Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or anything else containing alcohol in it. As a matter of fact, there are times the Bible speaks of alcohol in a positive light.

Ephesians 5:18 "be not drunk with wine where in excess; but be filled with the Holy Spirit." This passage of scripture is warning us to not be "drunk" or drinking to the point where it is to much or "excess". Drinking to much leads to intoxication, which leads to bad decisions. God wants us to be filled by the Holy Spirit which leads and guides us into making better decisions in life.

Exodus 32:6-7 The people were so intoxicated with wine that the Lord said, "they have corrupted themselves."
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." To be led astray is to be led by the intoxication of wine, where God wants us to be lead by the Holy Spirit.

Proverbs 31:4-7 verse 4 says that it is not for kings to drink wine. If the king is drunk and is under its influence, he may forget the law, his morals, or himself. A drunken king will use bad judgement when making important decisions concerning his kingdom. A king who stays drunk all the time cannot lead his people or country. Now notice in verse 6 this passage is actually giving permission to drink intoxicating wine. "strong drink" to those who are about to die and may need it for pain and "wine" who have a heavy heart and is afflicted with anxiety, nervousness, or something troubling them emotionally.

Final thoughts
It is incorrect to say that wine in the Bible was just simply grape juice, but equally incorrect to say that wine was fermented the same as modern day. It has been clinically proven that a glass of red wine soothes the stomach. The drunken state is what the Bible most warns about. The fact is, many people have a problem with having just "one glass" of red wine and want to keep going until it is too late. They become enslaved by the alcohol and do and say things they normally wouldn't. For these people it is a good idea to stay completely away from any kind of alcohol beverage. Keep in mind, back in ancient times the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. It is still true today in some third world countries where immediately after you step off an airplane they tell you not to drink the water! Regarding alcohol and its effects it has on people, the easy temptation to consume more than one can handle, and due to the possibility causing another brother or sister stumbling in their walk with Christ, it may be best for a Christian to abstain from drinking all together.
God bless everyone!
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It is not a sin to drink alcohol..

it is a sin to get intoxicated with Alcohol..

Jesus turned water into wine.. He would never have done that if it was a sin to drink Wine..

Not drinking alcohol is a tradition of men introduced into some churches which sounds good to a lot of people who have been adversely affected beause of their or their parents inability to control their drinking..

If a person cannot control themselves and they drink to excess,, Then yes they should cease drinking alcohol all together.. If you have an addictive personality don't drink..
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

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#53
Sep 17, 2016
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#53
WithinReason

WithinReason

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Feb 21, 2020
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#54
Melach said:
tell us what deuteronomy 14:26 really means then. i looked at all translations and the hebrew and it says the same thing.
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Yes, the translation is not so much the issue, as the KJB reads perfectly:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,​
​
Deu 14:26 ונתתה הכסף בכל אשׁר־תאוה נפשׁך בבקר ובצאן וביין ובשׁכר ובכל אשׁר תשׁאלך נפשׁך ואכלת שׁם לפני יהוה אלהיך ושׂמחת אתה וביתך׃​
​
Deu 14:26 καὶ δώσεις τὸ ἀργύριον ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, ἐπὶ βουσὶ ἢ ἐπὶ προβάτοις, ἐπὶ οἴνῳ ἢ ἐπὶ σικερα ἢ ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, καὶ φάγῃ ἐκεῖ ἐναντίον κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου​

It is the context of this verse that needs to be understood.

For instance, instead of presenting my study, let me ask you, do you know what the context of this event refers to?

Where were the Israelites to do this thing in context?

Where were the Israelites at the time of this verse?

Does the text say that they were to "drink" the "wine" or "strong drink"?

Have you read Deuteronomy 12 in connection to Deuteronomy 14, & 26 & 29 along with Number 28?

Have you considered the typological aspects with the anti-typical reality of it a given in the NT?

Do you know what the word "tithe", "firstfruits" means? (I am simply asking).
 
Melach

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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WithinReason said:
Yes, the translation is not so much the issue, as the KJB reads perfectly:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,​
​
Deu 14:26 ונתתה הכסף בכל אשׁר־תאוה נפשׁך בבקר ובצאן וביין ובשׁכר ובכל אשׁר תשׁאלך נפשׁך ואכלת שׁם לפני יהוה אלהיך ושׂמחת אתה וביתך׃​
​
Deu 14:26 καὶ δώσεις τὸ ἀργύριον ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, ἐπὶ βουσὶ ἢ ἐπὶ προβάτοις, ἐπὶ οἴνῳ ἢ ἐπὶ σικερα ἢ ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, καὶ φάγῃ ἐκεῖ ἐναντίον κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου​

It is the context of this verse that needs to be understood.

For instance, instead of presenting my study, let me ask you, do you know what the context of this event refers to?

Where were the Israelites to do this thing in context?

Where were the Israelites at the time of this verse?

Does the text say that they were to "drink" the "wine" or "strong drink"?

Have you read Deuteronomy 12 in connection to Deuteronomy 14, & 26 & 29 along with Number 28?

Have you considered the typological aspects with the anti-typical reality of it a given in the NT?

Do you know what the word "tithe", "firstfruits" means? (I am simply asking).
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the context is about tithes yes. thats how they are to live in their land give levites their 10% of all food and etc.

the text doesnt say drink no, but it says eat so are they eating strong drink with a spoon then? it means drink clearly imo.

i havent read it in connection can you tell me whats the connection between deut 12 14 26 and 29 and numbers 28? i do know what tithing and firstfruits mean yes
 
WithinReason

WithinReason

Active member
#57
Feb 21, 2020
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#57
Melach said:
it means drink clearly imo.
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That is how not to study the Bible. Do not assume, or allow our opinion to get in the way, as that leads us astray. Consider the passages I cited first. Please. Then let us look at the text again in their light.
 
Melach

Melach

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#58
Mar 28, 2019
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#58
WithinReason said:
That is how not to study the Bible. Do not assume, or allow our opinion to get in the way, as that leads us astray. Consider the passages I cited first. Please. Then let us look at the text again in their light.
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i see it says eat yes. whats your point about that? and whats the connection between the chapters?
 
R

Runningman

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#59
Mar 4, 2020
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#59
It only takes a second to ask a yes or no question, but often it takes several minutes or longer to parse out the appropriate answer. If we can't make a point with 250 characters or less in under a minute's time then people stop paying attention these days.
 
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

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#60
Aug 12, 2019
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#60
MOC said:
God's word has much to say about the consumption of fermented and unfermented wine. In ancient times wine could be fermented grape juice mixed with water, thus making it somewhat diluted. Fermented wine could also be made without adding water and making it more intoxicating. The Bible often describes this type of wine as "strong drink". Without question the Bible condemns drinking to the point where a person is drunk. As Christians we are commanded to not let our bodies be enslaved by anything (1 Corinthians 6: 12) and getting drunk with alcohol would certainly fall under this category. Christians should not do anything that hinders the Holy Spirit's influence on us. A person who consumes alcohol to the point where they are drunk has let the alcohol influence their decision making instead of being "filled by the spirit". Alcohol by itself is not tainted by sin, it is the drunkenness and addiction to it that a Christian must absolutely stay away from. Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or anything else containing alcohol in it. As a matter of fact, there are times the Bible speaks of alcohol in a positive light.

Ephesians 5:18 "be not drunk with wine where in excess; but be filled with the Holy Spirit." This passage of scripture is warning us to not be "drunk" or drinking to the point where it is to much or "excess". Drinking to much leads to intoxication, which leads to bad decisions. God wants us to be filled by the Holy Spirit which leads and guides us into making better decisions in life.

Exodus 32:6-7 The people were so intoxicated with wine that the Lord said, "they have corrupted themselves."
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." To be led astray is to be led by the intoxication of wine, where God wants us to be lead by the Holy Spirit.

Proverbs 31:4-7 verse 4 says that it is not for kings to drink wine. If the king is drunk and is under its influence, he may forget the law, his morals, or himself. A drunken king will use bad judgement when making important decisions concerning his kingdom. A king who stays drunk all the time cannot lead his people or country. Now notice in verse 6 this passage is actually giving permission to drink intoxicating wine. "strong drink" to those who are about to die and may need it for pain and "wine" who have a heavy heart and is afflicted with anxiety, nervousness, or something troubling them emotionally.

Final thoughts
It is incorrect to say that wine in the Bible was just simply grape juice, but equally incorrect to say that wine was fermented the same as modern day. It has been clinically proven that a glass of red wine soothes the stomach. The drunken state is what the Bible most warns about. The fact is, many people have a problem with having just "one glass" of red wine and want to keep going until it is too late. They become enslaved by the alcohol and do and say things they normally wouldn't. For these people it is a good idea to stay completely away from any kind of alcohol beverage. Keep in mind, back in ancient times the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. It is still true today in some third world countries where immediately after you step off an airplane they tell you not to drink the water! Regarding alcohol and its effects it has on people, the easy temptation to consume more than one can handle, and due to the possibility causing another brother or sister stumbling in their walk with Christ, it may be best for a Christian to abstain from drinking all together.
God bless everyone!
Click to expand...

Prov 31:6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

There is a time and a place for strong drink to relieve pain

Deut 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

God's festivals were observed with strong drink.

Additionally, the absolute prohibition of alcoholic drink amongst Christians in the modern era was due to a bunch of Methodist WOMEN who forced this issue in the 1800's.

And, in order to observe communion, wine is the biblical, normative drink....it is only due to these women that wine was replaced by grape juice. In fact, that is how Welch's grape juice came about, because grape juice can't be kept without fermentation until modern canning techniques were developed.

At the same time Scripture warns against over-indulgence with wine.

So, the self-righteous hypocrites who claim that wine cannot be consumed by Christians, and even strong drink, are wrong. The excesses are forbidden though.

Some believers may find it expedient to avoid alcoholic drink altogether, though, and that is their right. To impose their standards on others is an act of hypocrisy.

When I pointed out to one SDA believer that Jesus drank wine, he told me that my remark was blasphemous. Well, it doesn't take much understanding to realize that the Passover involved eating both meat (lamb) and drinking wine.

So, biblical ignorance abounds.

However like I said I have no issue with someone voluntarily abstaining, and maybe even pointing out that in certain cultures, drinking alcohol is too problematic and would not lend to a good witness.

But, the absolute prohibition is unbiblical, and the product of women leading the Church around with their self-righteous opinions. Women are not to lead the church. Men are to lead the church. The feminization of American Christianity has led to many errors. Men need to start wearing the pants in the Church again.
 
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