Not By Works

if a vagrant asked me for help getting together enough money to trade for a beer for himself, i'd like to give him two beers, and get a third, sit down & spend the time drinking it with him.

am i wrong?

An interesting consideration. This is exactly why we need to trust the leading of the Holy Spirit. There are situations where that would be a great response and others where it would be sinful and the difference between them are things we cannot spell out in hypotheticals.

No. You still do not understand what I am saying I am not saying what you think I am

I believe we must go where the Holy Spirit leads us...
I am an ex drinker , so for me I could never do this because I would end up on the drink all night and would ruin my witnessing to that person...

I remember when I first got saved and was still drinking , I would sit in the pub with drink in one hand and drunk in my speech speaking about Jesus , it makes me cringe looking back , what was I thinking , no one listened to me lol...
...xox...

I'm trying to understand. Am I overthinking it?

Yes for sure...
One person once , a women nearly stood up to me , she was not happy , she was with her boyfriend , she was very hostile to me and let me know she was having none of it , I then left her alone and funny enough , that was when I believe God was saying to me , this is not how I want you to be , nor be in these places...

One time , a young lad about 20 yrs of age , he was gay...
He was a friend of my daughter...
I sat with him in the same pub telling him that he will be going to hell if he does not accept Christ , and told him his sin will put him in hell...

The next day , people who knew me where saying how bad I was for this , the boy ended up in tears , my daughter at the time was furious with me and told me to mind my own business , I do not know to this day if that boy took any notice to be honest , but I was a babe in Christ and very abrupt , I have changed now thank God , and have learned about loving those who need to hear the word...
...xox...

I would not judge you at all. Husband has said the same what you said multiple times, btw, even quoting "he shall forget his misery". Not giving them drink or money for drink won't solve their problem or get them off the street. I am more for giving these people food or something alike, but maybe someone to sit down with them is what they need at times.

Homelessness is a complex issue that happens from various causes, people become homeless for many reasons, I've wondered many times is it even possible to really solve this or we're always putting a bandaid on it. How to really get these people off the streets and restore them into normal life.

In addition, where I am from (Europe), some beggars belong to mafia as well. They are taken to various locations in the morning and picked up in the evening into vans. Everyone has their designated turf. They make a lot of money, it's a well developed business and everybody knows it. I cannot begin to imagine, maybe these people are even forced into it, and who knows what happens if they don't gather enough? You give them clothing or shoes they will take it right off and keep going barefoot because that's how they get more money... In contrast, while these people go around and even set up begging stands, the real homeless do not beg they just mind their business.

Poor people that live in favella like cardboard "quarters", teach and send children to beg later some become muggers and parents don't want to send them to school and they are getting away with it even though school is mandatory by law (first 8 grades). If you offer them work they will not work, they want to beg it's how they are raised. I give food to whoever begs, in case they are victims of mafia or drunkard head of the family, in both cases money or clothing will be taken away from them.

In short, this is a big and well known social problem that I don't know how should be tackled and how to get these people out since they reject education for their kids and get away with it because they are part of a minority so every punishment for this would turn into a race issue. So the police can do nothing because of race and because the rest is mafia business, sometimes they pick these people up and take them to a homeless shelter (since begging is banned by law) and they just run away from there. Sigh. Sorry this was off topic but has been on my mind for years.

I TOLD YOU.

OBEDIENCE IS A PRODUCT of AGAPE LOVE.

IT NEVER WAS PART OF SALVATION.

THIS VERSE PROVES IT:

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,

Salvation is RECEIVED the MOMENT WE FIRST BELIEVED IN HIM.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, therefore Obedience is what you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

David, the friend of God

Just one example.

Beautiful response

1 John 3

So then can we summarize your view by stating that the thief on the cross who repented died without salvation?

Not sure what this means

Not about a court of law.
But God acts a judge, yes?

Yes, but sins are forgiven not expunged. We aren't declared innocent but we are accounted as being back in right standing of the king. Final judgment comes at the end, though we are justified before we are judged. We are deemed righteous when we receive grace but if we don't live out that righteousness we can forget our faces.

Everybody here who can only see 'save yourself' in scripture as a person working to earn their salvation, that's who.

Amen, We give them food. And things they need. Not money

Who said it was?
Did you forget the question you asked:
2 Peter 1:8 shows us that it is the changed and changing nature of a person that proves salvation.
That addresses the question you asked.

As I've shown you several times now, the Bible says being a changed/ changing person is the evidence of salvation and is the dividing line between the saved and the unsaved.
Is this Biblical answer not satisfactory for you?

The righteous become more righteous in behavior, and the unrighteous become more unrighteous (2 Timothy 3:13-14).
Growing up into the stature and image of Christ is the sign of salvation.

Sorry been busy, And just quickly responded to what you were saying before

lets put it this way.

Imagine you have purchased the best car money can buy, The most reliable. fuel efficient, percent car.

The purpose of the car is to Get from point A to point B.

However, no matter how perfect it is, or how great it is, It still must be used for the purpose it was created.

If I use the car to get from LA (point A) to New York (point B). It does what it is created to do perfectly.

However, if I try to use it to get from New York (point A) to London, England (point B) it will fail, because it is taken outside of its created purpose and design

The same thing goes with the law.

To use it to show us who God is, and what he is, and lead us from self to Christ (its created purpose) it is perfect in every way to lead is to that because that is what is was created for

however, if we try to use to to learn how to live righteously, And learn to be sanctified in our day to day living, It will fail, because that is not what it was created for. It was never designed for that purpose

That is what religion does to us sadly

That poor boy was headed to hell whether he was Gay or not. And focusing on one sin made you his judge, Something even Jesus said he did not come to do, He came to heal the sick.

The boy has to be healed spiritually before he can even think of being healed from the problems which caused him to sin. If only more people knew this, and became less judgmental. I believe more propel would be saved. and find true healing. which has caused many a people who have these sins to overcome them,

Ah, that makes sense. I'm in agreement that we shouldn't be living according to the law of Moses in any way, as that's not obedience to Christ.