Judas Iscariot will sit in throne and judge Israel?

Not only that. He was chosen to be "an Apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God" Did you read the references i gave ?

Like we can’t just assume Paul was the twelveth apostle and wasn’t stated as such in the Bible.

And no 11 didn’t replace Judas, I don’t know where you come up with these sayings but it’s not correct

again that has nothing to do with the lot casting, I’ve to go but take care maybe we will talk again.

I’ll say this before I go, some of the disciples was only mentioned 1 time in the Bible that is it, no other information on what they did was mentioned but that doesn’t mean they didn’t do anything

We can't say that Matthias saw the risen Christ but we can say that Paul did.
We can't say that Matthias delegated authority to perform signs and wonders, but we can say that Paul did.
We can't say that Matthias was chosen by God, but we can say that Paul was.

Matthias just doesn't measure up. He was "counted" as an apostle by men, Paul was "called" as an apostle of Christ by God, to which the scripture agrees with this decision.
I rest my case

We ought not to make assumptions about the gaps, and risk "going beyond what is written" as Paul forbade us.

Doubt it.....

Thank you....

read Acts chapter 1:23-26

So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Matthias was chosen by God.

No one is literally going to judge the tribes.Even if it was possible to distinguish .DNA goes back a few generations as far as genealogy.The generation of Christ as the the spiritual born again seed ended when Jesus came. No need to go any farther.

The Bible or book of law uses tribes in parables to give us the gospel understanding in another way.

Tribes simply represent Old testament saints on the other side of the 1st century reformation.

God personally named each one to help identify his chaste virgin bride the church in one way or another . Parables teach us how to walk by our new faith or new tongue. In that parable (Genesis 49 ) It is used to describe the bride of Christ . He set aside Dan to represent the spirit of judgement , the letter of the law, the poison of death .The tribe of Dan is not found in the description of the bride of Christ in Revelation 21 pertaining to the old testament saints . Dan is omitted .Death as to the letter of the law will not enter the promised land . Just as Moses was not allowed as one who represents the law giver .

Genesis 49:16-17 King James Version (KJV) Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

The whole chapter paints a beautiful picture of the bride the church .Much is said of our savior from the tribe of Judah the tribe of the new kingdom of priest from all nations men and women alike .

Genesis 49:8-12 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

We can’t say Paul was supposed to be the twelveth legit apostle because what happened in the upper room was to forfill scripture when Jesus came to Paul on the road to Damascus wasn’t scripture forfilled. He was chosen to speak to the gentiles in which Paul was well studied on different languages.

It’s called Pauline doctrine, basically placing Paul above all other apostles which I don’t think Jesus placed one disciple/apostle above all and that is what your doing, obsession with the teaching of Paul not saying Paul didn’t do great things indeed he did but your going over the top I’ve seen it before from other posters I’ve seen people place Paul’s words above Jesus words that’s called Pauline doctrine.

The text doesn't indicate that God condoned any of this. God is not a gumball machine. Prayer is not chiefly designed to convince God to give us what we think we need. God never even told them to replace Judas it was Peter's idea. God doesn't always answer (or even desire) prayer (Jer 7:16, 15:1, Ezk 14:13-16, Duet 3:23-26, 2 Sam 12:16-18.)

Now I'm not saying that this is outright wrong, I understand that there is "evidence for both sides, and i definitely have studied both sides. All I'm going to say is that I'm not convinced that Matthias was God's choice.
I stand where I do because of what I said in post #33 and #45.

Jesus in whom the father spoke through in the last days define the word friend by who he was a reflection of the Father. . One who loves at all times (agape) Brothers and sisters are born for opposition.

Because only the Lord not seen can rebuke Satan, the Father put his words in the mouth of His prophet Jesus and spoke those words to Satan not seen . Get behind me not seen. . . not Peter seen. Peter was forgiven His new faith increased. Peter decreased. . .

I agreee though unfortunately I don’t think the poster would even consider acts 1:24 He has made up his mind Paul was the true 12th apostle

This was something Peter said out of his own will before the Holy Spirit was upon Him. Peter had been wrong before. The Holy Spirit baptized him in the following chapter leading up to his spirit-led leadership of the church.

No one here is claiming that Paul is above the other 11 apostles. I (and others) have said that he was equally with them because he was chosen by Jesus, in whom the final authority lies. I definitely am not a "Pauline doctrine" guy. Jesus has been given all authority on heaven and earth.

Both make sense to me. That they acted of their own accord, or it was the Lord's will. Arguments could be made for both.

The only additional modifier to the casting of lots argument is they weren't indwelt at that time.


It doesn't exactly change anything for me because we don't 100% know but we shall.

Jesus told them to wait for the Holy Spirit (what the Father had promised).....but they did this instead. It could have been different if they had waited for thte Holy Spirit before making this decision.

I agree with everything here except "they weren't indwelt" They were born again in John 20:22, they just hadn't been baptized with the Holy Spirit yet. So they were born again, but they had no imparted power to witness and be led by the Holy Spirit yet