The divine plan

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#21
I do not understand how you can believe that when we sin God's will is being done.


God's plan for our redemption is a wonderful thing, but sin was never God's will. It still isn't.
Again you’re misunderstanding me sin itself is not his will but this isn’t about sin it’s about his divine plan you aren’t understanding the op and it’s message

It wasn’t his will for sin but again that isn’t the point
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#22
The more I study, the more I am buying what the Hebrew people theorized concerning Genesis 1:1
It clearly states that God created the heavens and the earth.
It's difficult to believe that God spoke Earth into existence as something void and formless. That would mean God made Earth half complete and nowhere do I find where God has ever done anything halfway. I totally believe like the Hebrews believe that Genesis 1:1 meant Earth was completed and going into verse 2 means that God destroyed Earth before restructuring it.

Just like this thread, somewhere in the annals of time, God decided to create...
Before He ever created, He already knew what He would create and how it would all turn out.
So then, I do not buy that God said, I am going to create Earth, but I am going to begin with Earth being null and void. Especially in Genesis chapter 2 we see that on the day God created things, He created them in generations (in other words, He did not speak a seedling into existence but a full tree. He did not speak a seedling into existence, but the entire flower, blade of grass, full grown animals, even Adam was a full grown man, not an infant).

So knowing that God spoke things into existence by generations, also tells me God would have originally spoke the Earth in completeness.

Of course, that now leaves the question, if God did everything by Generations, why was Earth null and void?
What angered God to destroy his original completed Earth?


I know many won't be able to grasp what I am saying here and I will get backlash. But I do have a good point here, whether or not you understand it or not!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#23
Here is a view I bet no one has ever considered.

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

Even in the first two verses of Genesis, God declared that there was a first earth age.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
#24
Here is a view I bet no one has ever considered.

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

Even in the first two verses of Genesis, God declared that there was a first earth age.
I think you're on the right track. I don't believe 2 Pet 3:6 is talking about Noah's flood either.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#25
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

God made the angels perfect in their ways until iniquity was found in them, which some angels decided to sin by exalting themselves, and did not come from God, and was not His will.

Lucifer was created to do good, but he exalted himself and then was known by the name Satan to reveal his new identity as being evil.

Like God changed Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, and Saul to Paul to identify their new identity as following God, but this was for the good.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God an innocent nature in flesh.

God made man upright but they sought out many inventions their own ways.

It would of never entered Adam and Eve's mind to sin unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she could know and think.

Then Satan tempted Eve with an alternate reality that if she ate of the tree she would be as a god, and she ate and sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam that she did not die, and nothing bad happened to her and Adam ate and sinned.

God created the angels to do good but some decided to sin.

God created Adam and Eve to do good but they decided to sin.

It is not God's will that we sin.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#26
This makes it clearer:



In 2 Peter 3:6, it mentions the World that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
Which 'world' is being addressed?


The World in Gen 1:1 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters
OR
The World of Noah and the flood: I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth


Summary:

God Formed The Earth To Be Inhabited Turn your Bible with me to,

Isaiah 45:18 18 “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD, and there is none else.”

Our Heavenly Father “formed” the earth to be inhabited. He formed the earth for people, animals, insects, and plants to thrive.

He did not form the earth “without form, void”, full of “darkness” and covered in water, nor could life emerge from the earth if it was “an indistinguishable ruin”.

God did not create the earth “in vain” (Strong’s: H8414) which is the same Hebrew word we find in Genesis 1:2 being “without form”. Jehovah, our Heavenly Father is telling us plainly, He did not create the earth “vain,” He did not create the earth “without form”.

Instead, He created the earth with “form” (Strong’s: H3335) which means,

“To mould into a form; especially as a potter”.

Our Father is the Potter who molded the earth into form, He “established” (Strong’s: H3559) the earth which means He “perfected” it, (Isaiah 64:8).

Scripture makes it abundantly clear, our Father “is not the author of confusion,” He is not the Creator of “a desolation,” “but of peace” and ‘perfection’, (1 Corinthians 14:33, Psalms 18:30).

Isaiah 45:18 perfectly aligns with Genesis 1:2 when we understand “was” should have been translated “became”.

These facts bring harmony to the Scriptures. He formed the earth in perfection, but it “became without form, void,” and full of “darkness” due to Satan’s Sin in “The World That Was”, “before the heavens and earth which are now.”

The World That Was “Became” Covered In Water Our Father is gracious enough to provide us with multiple witnesses to the facts we have covered so far. We are going to turn our Bible to the book of Psalms, and we should understand Psalms 104:5-30 perfectly overlays with Genesis 1:1-31.

Psalms 104:5 5 “Who laid the foundations of the earth that it should not be removed for ever.”

Jehovah, our Heavenly Father laid the foundations of the earth “in the beginning” as Genesis 1:1 documents. Scripture makes it clear, the earth will never be removed, (Genesis 8:22).

When this took place is unknown to mankind, it could have been millions or even billions of years ago. I am sure one day our Father will provide us with these details.

Psalms 104:6 6 “Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.”

While Psalms 104:5 explains our Father “laid the foundations of the earth” in the beginning, verse 6 explains He then covered the earth with water. Meaning, it was not covered with water before, but “became” covered in water, “became without form, void” and full of “darkness” as we learned in Genesis 1:2.

Scripture provides us with even more clarity and detail by explaining there was so much water it “stood above the mountains”. Simply meaning, there was no “dry land” which completely aligns with the state of the earth as outlined in Genesis 1:2;9 until “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters,” during the Seven Days of Genesis.

For our Father to create the earth in ‘perfection’ and then destroy “The World That Was” by covering the earth in water means something happened. There had to be a reason for Him to take such action. As we have explained, this was due to Satan’s Sin in The First Earth Age.

This is the earth age and its destruction which Peter describes as the world that was, caused by Lucifer and the angels who followed him, Revelation 12:4. This is not describing Noah’s flood, which is of this second and present earth age, the age of the judgment of all men. The flood of Genesis 6 had the family of Noah, birds, and no mention of cities which were destroyed. In verse twenty-two, God tells us of the shortcomings of His children during this present earth age, because there is hardly any teaching of the 1st earth age and its overthrow, yet the scientific community knows that this earth had undergone turmoil at one time.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#27
Servants not slaves. Servants choose to serve, slaves are forced. Big difference.
“For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.” Romans 6:20 (KJV 1900) Servant =

1587291887564.png
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#29
Are you forced to serve Christ or do you serve Him out of love and what He has done for you?
If Christ raises a person from the dead, will the person gladly serve him in thanksgiving? That is how salvation happens. The new birth is a resurrection from the dead.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,735
3,554
113
#30
If Christ raises a person from the dead, will the person gladly serve him in thanksgiving? That is how salvation happens. The new birth is a resurrection from the dead.
Gladly serve Him yes, forced to serve Him, nope. We are not slaves, but servants.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#31
Gladly serve Him yes, forced to serve Him, nope. We are not slaves, but servants.
We serve God in love because he saved us when we hated him and could not will righteousness.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,735
3,554
113
#32
We serve God in love because he saved us when we hated him and could not will righteousness.
Yes, we could not will it, but God provided the way unto salvation through Jesus Christ upon all that believe.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#33
Yes, we could not will it, but God provided the way unto salvation through Jesus Christ upon all that believe.
You are turning the key trait of all whom God saves into a work of the flesh that cannot save. Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Believing is a trait of the saved. You try to change his words into saying whoever "Chooses", as a work of the flesh. will have eternal life.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,735
3,554
113
#34
You are turning the key trait of all whom God saves into a work of the flesh that cannot save. Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Believing is a trait of the saved. You try to change his words into saying whoever "Chooses", as a work of the flesh. will have eternal life.
Whoever believes has eternal life, not whoever has eternal life will believe. You’ve got it backwards in you interpretation. Believing comes first and it’s not a work of the flesh. Nice try.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#35
Whoever believes has eternal life, not whoever has eternal life will believe. You’ve got it backwards in you interpretation. Believing comes first and it’s not a work of the flesh. Nice try.
Has = in possession of.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#38
He did no such thing. Read the Ten Commandments.
First off, that is a copy/paste.
Secondly, if you are referring to Commandment number 4, does not prove anything from what you are claiming. Just proves if the article is correct, God began verse 2, or restructuring the Earth and began again time, hours, minutes, seconds, days.

You really should put some thought into your posts rather than go off a first idea without thinking it all of the way through.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,635
13,034
113
#39
Secondly, if you are referring to Commandment number 4, does not prove anything from what you are claiming.
If the Ten Commandments -- which were written by the finger of God -- do not prove anything to someone, then the problem is with the one who believes such a thing.

The Ten Commandments categorically state that God created everything in six days: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exod 20:11) Which corresponds to this: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. (Gen 2:1)

Those six days were six literal 24 hour days, and are therefore compared to man's work week in this passage: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v. 9) So if you cannot believe that, then you do have a serious problem.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#40
The more I study, the more I am buying what the Hebrew people theorized concerning Genesis 1:1
It clearly states that God created the heavens and the earth.
It's difficult to believe that God spoke Earth into existence as something void and formless. That would mean God made Earth half complete and nowhere do I find where God has ever done anything halfway. I totally believe like the Hebrews believe that Genesis 1:1 meant Earth was completed and going into verse 2 means that God destroyed Earth before restructuring it.

Just like this thread, somewhere in the annals of time, God decided to create...
Before He ever created, He already knew what He would create and how it would all turn out.
So then, I do not buy that God said, I am going to create Earth, but I am going to begin with Earth being null and void. Especially in Genesis chapter 2 we see that on the day God created things, He created them in generations (in other words, He did not speak a seedling into existence but a full tree. He did not speak a seedling into existence, but the entire flower, blade of grass, full grown animals, even Adam was a full grown man, not an infant).

So knowing that God spoke things into existence by generations, also tells me God would have originally spoke the Earth in completeness.

Of course, that now leaves the question, if God did everything by Generations, why was Earth null and void?
What angered God to destroy his original completed Earth?


I know many won't be able to grasp what I am saying here and I will get backlash. But I do have a good point here, whether or not you understand it or not!
I think you make an amazing point. personally when it says dark and void I think may be a mistranslation because your right he has never once done anything half way he simply isn't the type. Or pehaps since he does things in generations maybe it means that at the time adam and eve were the only human race at that time.

Honestly I am not sure but you do make quite a good point