Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Considering the context of Pauls words at Romans 4 helps. Circumcised Jews under Mosaic law mistakenly believed works in adherence to the law they would be saved. Paul makes it clear nobody can be saved by works. He then cites the example of Abraham who was declared righteous not because of works or circumcision, but because of his exemplary faith. But why can we say Abraham had exemplary faith? What proves this to you? Did Abraham just say I have exemplary faith and do nothing to show that? Or rather did he prove his exemplary faith by actions [works in demonstration of his faith]. The answer to these questions I believe is given at James 2:21-26.
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Through faith one is saved. But faith without works is dead James 2:26. Our faith needs to be a living faith demonstrated by works of faith, otherwise according to scripture our faith will be considered lifeless, dead in God's eyes. Would you say because the demons believe in Jesus they are saved? Certainly not! because they work in opposition to God. Something more than saying we believe or have faith is required for it to count with God.
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Not at all, notice there it says we shall be saved not we have been saved. It's a past-present-and future situation. Salvation is not something that happens at a given point in our lives as if one day we were unsaved and the next saved. The justification begins with a declaration that is then made reality. If it is not becoming reality than there is no such declaration.
For people who claim to confess Christ as Lord you all sure resist actually allowing Him to be master of your lives.
For people who claim to confess Christ as Lord you all sure resist actually allowing Him to be master of your lives.
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Who's disputing that it's the blood that justifies?
My statements have been to simply say that if you don't have works you don't have faith, and that salvation comes with abiding in God's terms. There's this high-minded approach to trying to resist theologically, but its a splitting of the truth into little packets that the Bible doesn't divide them into. There is no salvation without sanctification so to theologically oppose someone for speaking of the necessity of it belies a more personal rejection.
My statements have been to simply say that if you don't have works you don't have faith, and that salvation comes with abiding in God's terms. There's this high-minded approach to trying to resist theologically, but its a splitting of the truth into little packets that the Bible doesn't divide them into. There is no salvation without sanctification so to theologically oppose someone for speaking of the necessity of it belies a more personal rejection.
Having faith is not work.
Faith is diametrically opposed to and contrasted with work:
"to the one who does not work but trusts God" - Romans 4:5
"12The law (work) is not based on faith; on the contrary" - Galatians 3:12
You are the one making 'believing' work when the Bible says it is not.
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Faith is diametrically opposed to and contrasted with work:
"to the one who does not work but trusts God" - Romans 4:5
"12The law (work) is not based on faith; on the contrary" - Galatians 3:12
You are the one making 'believing' work when the Bible says it is not.
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In other words you have no desire to discuss the most important topic in scripture. But your Ok to discuss Something you believe in
I guess this says it all
I do have a question though if you do not want to discuss. Why are you in a thread where that is the main topic?
as for as you think most of the bible says otherwise. Well you said you have no desire to discuss it. Or the passage I brought up. So I guess it’s a mute point
[quote-]As for James, the whole reason I bring it up is specifically to highlight that those who place a division between works and saving faith are not presenting a Biblical picture of saving faith. There is no separation, no faith without works. There's no need to get into a number because the whole point is to demonstrate a dimension of faith that many explicitly deny. OSAS proponents set Paul against James and then try to stifle James by speaking of context issues they never define so we can't talk about if they actually are there or not.[/QUOTE]
You do not get it. The people in here who are using it say James is saying we can lose salvation. Nothing in the text states this. So you you keep bringing it up. All we can do is assume your just like them
I guess this says it all
I do have a question though if you do not want to discuss. Why are you in a thread where that is the main topic?
as for as you think most of the bible says otherwise. Well you said you have no desire to discuss it. Or the passage I brought up. So I guess it’s a mute point
[quote-]As for James, the whole reason I bring it up is specifically to highlight that those who place a division between works and saving faith are not presenting a Biblical picture of saving faith. There is no separation, no faith without works. There's no need to get into a number because the whole point is to demonstrate a dimension of faith that many explicitly deny. OSAS proponents set Paul against James and then try to stifle James by speaking of context issues they never define so we can't talk about if they actually are there or not.[/QUOTE]
You do not get it. The people in here who are using it say James is saying we can lose salvation. Nothing in the text states this. So you you keep bringing it up. All we can do is assume your just like them