Not By Works

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Lightskin

Lightskin

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eternally-gratefull

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Bbrdrd said:
Yes, those works are required for salvation but are not efficacious to save. The salvation is a gift, but those obligations are basic obligations of man regardless of God's grace to save. Whether or not God saw fit to forgive our transgressions we would still be required as a basic obligation to fear God and keep His commands as basic duty. It is this very fact that makes it impossible to earn salvation, because any good works we do are nothing more than things we are already obliged to do. Christ didn't remove our basic obligation, He set us free from sin so we may pursue righteousness unencumbered.

What does trusting God have to do with whether we should separate the realities of a life of faith into neat little doctrinal boxes rather than discussing them as they exist all tangled and messy in our daily lives? If you truly trust God why are you creating walls to make excuses for men who desire the prize but not the Source?
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So God gives us a gift

aNd then God says you can keep this gift as long as you do these works.if you don’t do them, or stop doing them, then you will forfeit your gift, and I will have to take it back

yeah, we call that a down payment in the real world. I give younpaymen tin advance for work you going to do in the future.

i wish you knew how bad this thought makes God look, it also makes God a liar, because it was never a gift to begin with
 
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eternally-gratefull

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Lightskin said:
My pastor has a saying; “The one thing all people have in common is we’re all sinners in need of God’s grace.”
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If we do not see this, yet also see, in Christ we are forgiven

we will already Be in a while when it comes to being sanctified, as those are two huge milk doctrines we need to nourish us from new birth
 
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EleventhHour

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Judges1318 said:
Anybody who ignores the conviction of the Holy Spirit in willful determined unbelief is guilty of blasphemy of the Spirit.
You can do that by going to a bar and getting drunk.
You can do that by telling a lie.
You can commit the unforgivable sin through any of the sins common to mankind.
The key being, you're doing it in willful, knowing, determined unbelief.
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Before I leave, I just want to state one thing.. this is just ridiculous.

So now sin is connected to unbelief which causes us to loose salvation.

You should have stopped when you were ahead.... OH YEAH, you were never ahead. :rolleyes:
 
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Judges1318

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eternally-gratefull said:
So God gives us a gift

aNd then God says you can keep this gift as long as you do these works.if you don’t do them, or stop doing them, then you will forfeit your gift, and I will have to take it back
...
i wish you knew how bad this thought makes God look, it also makes God a liar, because it was never a gift to begin with
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It's a gift in that you don't have to work the works of the law to earn it.
It's not a gift in that there are no conditions attached to it.
It has the condition of believing in Christ attached to it.
Since you don't work to satisfy the condition of believing it's not a works gospel.

"to the one who does not work but trusts God" - Romans 4:5


.
 
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Judges1318

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EleventhHour said:
Before I leave, I just want to state one thing.. this is just ridiculous.

So now sin is connected to unbelief which causes us to loose salvation.

You should have stopped when you were ahead.... OH YEAH, you were never ahead. :rolleyes:
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If you no longer believe/ trust in Christ you no longer have the blood of Christ to cover you sins.
Your sinning from that point forward is held to your account, not Christ's anymore.
Christ does not pay the sin debt of people who do not believe/ trust in Him to do that.
The condition for having your sins forgiven is that you believe/ trust in Him.
You don't work to have your sins forgiven, you trust in the ministry of Christ in order to have your sins forgiven.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment" - Hebrews 10:26


(Note: This is talking about the person who willfully sins in unbelief and a rejection of Christ. It's not talking about the struggling saint moving on to maturity through their continued believing. The blood of Christ covers that person. They still believe.)
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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Judges1318 said:
It's a gift in that you don't have to work the works of the law to earn it.
It's not a gift in that there are no conditions attached to it.
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A gift with conditions is not a gift. Once conditions are applied it becomes a payment.
 
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Judges1318

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Lightskin said:
A gift with conditions is not a gift. Once conditions are applied it becomes a payment.
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Not according to Paul.
No one gets saved without first satisfying the condition for believing/ trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
And Paul makes it crystal clear that is not a works gospel.
In fact, he sharply contrasts it with the works gospel: "to the one who does not work but trusts God" - Romans 4:5
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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Judges1318 said:
Not according to Paul.
No one gets saved without first satisfying the condition for believing/ trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
And Paul makes it crystal clear that is not a works gospel.
In fact, he sharply contrasts it with the works gospel: "to the one who does not work but trusts God" - Romans 4:5
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Exactly, we are saved by grace through faith. IMO referring to that as a condition is semantics.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Finepearl said:
I think we may be missing the point. James is not saying the demons have saving faith, neither am I. James makes reference to the demons belief in 'one God' to help us to appreciate his whole argument summarised in the last verse James 2:26 i.e. that faith without works is dead. It is James, not me, that includes the statement about the belief of the demons in the context of his letter which is belief/faith in Christ Jesus [James 2:1]. Having a belief or faith in something or someone does not always have to have a positive connotation. For example a prisoner sentenced to death, imprisoned and waiting on death row believes unless there is a pardon granted, he will die.
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No....the contrast is between a mere belief in God void of saving faith....JEWS were the audience and they have the same issue this very day....a mere belief in God, but no saving faith in Christ....and make no mistake...Paul is clear...FAITH alone saves a man without the deeds/works of any law or religious deed....

How many WORKS PROVE salvation?

1 --> the work of the FATHER -->BELIEVE on him whom HE SENT
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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eternally-gratefull said:
I think they tremble because they know their final fate, and will be Jesus who judges them and sends them to that fate
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Exactly.....they all know their fate is sealed and even know when the gig is about up...deep down they know that God is God and their butts are in the proverbial sling with the lake of fire their destiny!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Judges1318 said:
If you no longer believe/ trust in Christ you no longer have the blood of Christ to cover you sins.
Your sinning from that point forward is held to your account, not Christ's anymore.
Christ does not pay the sin debt of people who do not believe/ trust in Him to do that.
The condition for having your sins forgiven is that you believe/ trust in Him.
You don't work to have your sins forgiven, you trust in the ministry of Christ in order to have your sins forgiven.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment" - Hebrews 10:26


(Note: This is talking about the person who willfully sins in unbelief and a rejection of Christ. It's not talking about the struggling saint moving on to maturity through their continued believing. The blood of Christ covers that person. They still believe.)
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The above bolded is satanic.....It is not of God, not biblical and the Spirit of God would not lead a child of God to say such a thing. Having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us is clear enough.....you are as false as they come man!
 
RebuildJesussChurch

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It is written, “All sinners among my people will die by the sword, all those who say disaster will not meet or overtake us.”

A painter, paints. A sinner, sins.

Reminds me of many on this thread who have bought a false gospel, hook, line and sinker... as the whole western christian church has, basically. 2 Cor. 11:3,4
 
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EleventhHour

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RebuildJesussChurch said:
It is written, “All sinners among my people will die by the sword, all those who say disaster will not meet or overtake us.”

A painter, paints. A sinner, sins.

Reminds me of many on this thread who have bought a false gospel, hook, line and sinker... as the whole western christian church has, basically. 2 Cor. 11:3,4
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Yup, there sure are many on this thread that have bought a false gospel.

That is because the TRUE Gospel is TOO expensive for them.

They would have to lay down their self-righteousness and cease from THEIR work.
 
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