How to perceive Christians who are carnal and babes? 1 Cor. 3: 1-3.

stonesoffire · Jun 7, 2020

Thank you.

For by a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

This is what I’ve been trying to convey. In our spirit man we have received the seed of Christ. So sanctification begins as we are watered with the Word. The inward work of growth, and the washing Of the Word, the refreshing; plus the sprinkling of blood upon our conscience as He searches our heart.

We are perfect. Perfected. Perfection. Saved. Being saved. Salvation.

Positionally first. Then the process. To the finished man.

Our part? Believe. Leads to faith as we step out in His Spirit. Moving in His gifts.

What do we present to Father for His pleasure? Son.

Reformyourself · Jun 7, 2020

Psalm 116:12-13
What shall I render to the Lord
For all His benefits toward me?
I will take up the cup of salvation,
And call upon the name of the Lord.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 7, 2020

stonesoffire said:

Yes, I understand. I was just trying to point out what OP stated in the thread title and what is revealed in that section of Scripture.

The pastor of the church I attend made an interesting statement this morning. He indicated that there are cultural issues which divide the church and he pointed to Act 6:1

Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

At that time, the church consisted only of jewish believers as the gentiles were brought in later (Acts 10). However, there were jewish believers in various countries / locations (as is revealed in Acts 2:9-11). So in Acts 6:1 we see that there was division between the Grecians and the Hebrews. The issue was dealt with and resolved (Acts 6:2-6), with the result being that the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith (Acts 6:7).

Another statement my pastor made this morning was that the oldest tactic of satan is to get believers to argue with each other over non-essential issues ... this also causes division. Then pastor stated "we need to take our beliefs and wash them in the blood of Christ" so that when we do have disagreement over non-salvation matters, we show the grace, mercy, forgiveness, lovingkindness we were shown when the Lord Jesus Christ brought us into the body.

So I do agree there are various issues which cause division in the body of Christ, such as your point that we sometimes do not live in light of "I is crucified with Christ" as you stated earlier ... I just got hung up on OP thread title of 1 Cor 3:1-3.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 7, 2020

stonesoffire said:

i know that many sincere Christians difer in opinion on this subject. i do not believe a Christian who has arrived at full surrender to God can fall away. But I have seen in scripture, that some do fall away from Christ and do not return. And that the New Testament, warns Christians against allowing themselves to do so. I myself, have reached full surrender to Christ with my life, and so see that I am in no danger of falling away from Christ or losing my salvation. I believe that falling away from Christ can only occur as a result of willful turning away. Think of all the children that choose to "accept Jesus as Lord and Savior" of their lives - and how many of such ones later turn away from Christ in their teenaged years! And think of the first king of Israel, Saul - who served God at first - but later turned away from God and died in his sins. And also, King Solomon, who served God with some degree of sincerity at first - but who also later turned away from God, and died in his sins. Think also of Jesus' parable about the Sower and the seed. And how some bore fruit to God for a while, but then later turned away. Only the seed that fell on the rich soil, never fell away. I believe the rich soil represents deep wholeheartedness - and those who have come to a full surrender of their lives to God.

I have also read "Pilgrim's Progress" - by John Bunyan, several times in my past. It is not a true story, but does picture well the experiences of many who seek to end up in heaven. The character, named "Christian" ended up in heaven. But there were others he met or learned about on his trip through the road of life - who did fall away, never to return. I think that is an accurate picture of how things go. Only the most faithful in heart, end up in heaven. They are the ones who diligently make sure to always remain faithful to GOd in this life.
2 Peter 1:10-11

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
KJV
I think I have heard pastors, etc. comment in a puzzled way, about Christians they'd noticed in the past - who had fallen away from Christ. They wondered if these errant Christians would eventually return to Christ. But sounded like they assumed they would. I don't believe it is wise for a pastor to comment in this way - as though one could matter-of-factly assume that they'd return eventually, that is, "if they had been true Christians to begin with." I think it sounds too vague about the level of concern one should feel about such Christians. And about the danger of willfully falling away. I think it would be far better to warn Christians regularly against giving into "falling away." Just as the New Testament regularly warns churches against it. In other words, I think they are better off warned about this, than to portray that it may be possible to comfortably & safely allow oneself to be lenient about allowing sins to creep into his life.
Rev 3:15-16

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
KJV

BibleStudent60 · Jun 7, 2020

reneweddaybyday said:

This is so true---when we Christians argue over non-consequential issues that should fall into the realms of personal opinion, we fall straight into the clutches of Satan.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 7, 2020

BibleStudent60 said:

I do not have a problem with open and honest debate in order to come to a more perfect understanding of Scripture. But when a discussion devolves into name-calling and disrespect of a brother or sister in Christ (not esteeming others better than self), that is not Christ-like behavior.

I think it is good for us to discuss Scripture and as iron sharpens iron (Prov 27:17), as we have open and honest debate, we are shown where we are in error concerning Scripture and/or we are more fully established in faith.

There are a lot of great believers who have discussions here and not all agree on every issue. I like to see discussions where we don't tear other apart. I think Galatians says it best:

Galatians 5:

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

When we bite, devour, consume one another, it may satisfy (momentarily) an occasion to the flesh, but it is not indicative of the walk in the Spirit.

Kim82 · Jun 7, 2020

tantalon said:

According to the text, you must give them milk.

Grandpa · Jun 8, 2020

Kim82 said:

It would be good to know, definitively, what is the milk and what is the meat.

Such as, John 3:16 is milk. And 2 Corinthians 12:9 would be meat.

Or would they both be milk?

Is it dependent on the 'maturity' of the believer on what is taken as milk and what is taken as meat? Is it subjective?

reneweddaybyday · Jun 8, 2020

Grandpa said:

I believe that we all should care for each other. In other words, those who have been walking with the Lord for a while should help guide and mentor those who are younger in the Lord. And those who are young in the Lord should help those who are younger than them. And some who have been walking with the Lord may learn a thing or two from those who are babes in Christ. We all should be helping and guiding.

Grandpa said:

In the example of 1 Corinthians 2, Paul indicated:

1 Corinthians 2:

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

So I believe we can presume that Jesus Christ and Him crucified would be considered "milk". Which makes sense. We need to start with the gospel, the good news!!!

Further on, Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

From this, I believe we can presume that the mystery which God ordained would be meat to be taught among those that are perfect ("perfect" meaning mature ... not "sinless").

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

Reformyourself said:

Can you please explain through scripture?
‘I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me’
Answer: People are enabled to do all that Christ requires of people in order to both be acceptable to God, and to also be enabled to accomplish HIs will in and through their lives, through first of all: Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior of one's life. And then additionally and regularly , through prayer, seeking His help and guidance in daily living.
‘he who The Son sets free, will be free indeed’
Answer: Those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, are in doing so - free of the devil's control over their lives. They no longer have to be slaves to sin, as they have a new and better Master - God.
‘Therefore, you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect’
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV
Answer: We who know Christ as our Savior and Lord, are to continually and prayerfully do our best to keep sin out of our lives. And we are to regularly and sincerely, repent of all sins, daily.
‘Sanctify then by Your truth, Your Word is truth’
Answer: In that prayer Jesus prayed, He was praying that as much as was possible, that all those who would choose to accept Him as Lord and Savior of their life, throughout the future - would be well - filled with God's Word, and also do well at putting it to action in their daily lives.
‘And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing’
James 1:4
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
KJV
Answer: Christians are urged in this passage, to be patient in difficult, trying times. To remain obedient throughout such times. To take care not to deteriorate spiritually in such times.
‘...be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect’
Answer: In other words, to be constantly and prayerfully striving to live in a way that pleases God in daily lie. To not allow oneself to get spiritually lazy. By doing these things, one keeps himself in good spiritual condition, and from regressing spiritually. To keep oneself from backsliding to former bad spiritual habits and ways of thinking.
‘For by a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified’
Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
KJV
Read the earlier part of the chapter that leads to that part - that helps explain about it too.
Answer: Jesus was the perfect sacriice for our sins. He didn't need to be sacrificed more than once. But before He died for the world's sins, atonement or sins had to be done through repeated animal sacrifices.
‘The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul...’
Answer: Without God in one's life, one is "spiritually dead." Knowing God's Word and acting upon it, helps to make a person "spiritually alive" - spiritually well.
‘How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Your word’
Answer: We all have the choice to make in life, of whether to serve God or to serve the devil. Those who choose to serve God, and are prayerfully careful to please God in how they live their daily lives (and to repent of all sin daily), are seen as "righteous" in God's eyes.
Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV
‘Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me His own’
Answer: None of us are capable of being perectly sinless in this life. But even so, we are to always prayerfully do our best to be as obedient to God as is possible in daily life. We are not to allow ourselves to become lazy about fighting against our sinful tendencies.
‘...He led captivity captive...’
Eph 4:9
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
KJV
Answer: If Jesus hadn't died on the cross for our sins, we'd all be helpless slaves to sin and the devil. But by HIs dying on the cross, Jesus provided a way for people who sincerely seek Him, to be set free from the devil and the penalty of their sins. They are saved from all of that, through God's grace (Ephesians 4:7), demonstrated on the cross.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

Grandpa said:

Hi!
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV
That's a basic salvation message to help persuade people to get converted to Christ.
2 Cor 12:9
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
KJV
True, that is advice for the more spiritually mature. Here are some examples of how spiritually immature Christians are:
*Failure to have Christ fully formed in them.
Gal 4:19-20
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
KJV
*Not having grown spiritually beyond the initial receiving of the salvation message.
1 Cor 3:2-3
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
KJV
Heb 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV
Comment: It sounds like the immature ones need to work on getting to know God's Word better, and then applying more of it to their lives. They need to also learn to use more self control. They don't know the scriptures well enough to be that stable. They are more easily tossed to and fro with every wind & wave of doctrine, too.
I think this passage describes them to an extent, too, though they are better off than those who have no faith in God at all:
James 1:6-8

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
KJV

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

stonesoffire said:

Here's an online etymology for the word, "divine": late Middle English: via Old French from Latin divinus, from divus ‘godlike’ (related to deus ‘god’).
So naturally, God fits the description for that term, the best. He is superior to all else that exists.
2 Peter 1:3-4
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
KJV
And those who sincerely and diligently, are sometimes referred to in scripture as being "godly" - meaning simply that their goal is to live in a way that's pleasing to GOd in daily life. They prayerfully make efforts to do as well as is possible at obeying God's laws in daily life.
Heb 12:28
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
KJV
"Fear" here - I think - means having respect for God. And fear of disobeying.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

stonesoffire said:

It's not said in exactly those words in scripture. Though it's true that spiritually speaking, it is those who who are most "salty" and who most stand out "like a light on a hill" - for God, are those who accomplish the most for God.
Matt 5:13-14
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
KJV
Similarly, people who are willing to work to achieve something in life, and who do not allow themselves to give into the fear of avoiding all risks, and the fear of being different from other people - who accomplish the most worthwhile things in life.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

Gregoryp said:

No. The loving thing is to tell her she's wrong, and why, according to the scriptures. Anything that goes against the Bible is harmful to those who adopt such beliefs. Any errors of spiritual belief always has adverse affects. Especially subjects like that, which remove the focus from love or God - to the love of things. The love of things is idolatry.
1 John 5:21

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
KJV

MyrtleTrees · Jun 8, 2020

jaybo said:

Rebirth in Christ is primarily produced just by God's power and grace. However, one seeking to be a Christian needs to count the cost before taking the step to receive Christ as Lord and Savior. Otherwise, it would be a fake transaction. And following conversion, one needs to prayerfully seek to obey God's well with one's life. Failure to do so, proves one to be a fake disciple of Christ.
Matt 7:16-17

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
KJV

Reformyourself · Jun 8, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

Can you please explain through scripture?
‘I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me’
Answer: People are enabled to do all that Christ requires of people in order to both be acceptable to God, and to also be enabled to accomplish HIs will in and through their lives, through first of all: Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior of one's life. And then additionally and regularly , through prayer, seeking His help and guidance in daily living.
‘he who The Son sets free, will be free indeed’
Answer: Those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, are in doing so - free of the devil's control over their lives. They no longer have to be slaves to sin, as they have a new and better Master - God.
‘Therefore, you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect’
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV
Answer: We who know Christ as our Savior and Lord, are to continually and prayerfully do our best to keep sin out of our lives. And we are to regularly and sincerely, repent of all sins, daily.
‘Sanctify then by Your truth, Your Word is truth’
Answer: In that prayer Jesus prayed, He was praying that as much as was possible, that all those who would choose to accept Him as Lord and Savior of their life, throughout the future - would be well - filled with God's Word, and also do well at putting it to action in their daily lives.
‘And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing’
James 1:4
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
KJV
Answer: Christians are urged in this passage, to be patient in difficult, trying times. To remain obedient throughout such times. To take care not to deteriorate spiritually in such times.
‘...be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect’
Answer: In other words, to be constantly and prayerfully striving to live in a way that pleases God in daily lie. To not allow oneself to get spiritually lazy. By doing these things, one keeps himself in good spiritual condition, and from regressing spiritually. To keep oneself from backsliding to former bad spiritual habits and ways of thinking.
‘For by a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified’
Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
KJV
Read the earlier part of the chapter that leads to that part - that helps explain about it too.
Answer: Jesus was the perfect sacriice for our sins. He didn't need to be sacrificed more than once. But before He died for the world's sins, atonement or sins had to be done through repeated animal sacrifices.
‘The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul...’
Answer: Without God in one's life, one is "spiritually dead." Knowing God's Word and acting upon it, helps to make a person "spiritually alive" - spiritually well.
‘How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Your word’
Answer: We all have the choice to make in life, of whether to serve God or to serve the devil. Those who choose to serve God, and are prayerfully careful to please God in how they live their daily lives (and to repent of all sin daily), are seen as "righteous" in God's eyes.
Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV
‘Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me His own’
Answer: None of us are capable of being perectly sinless in this life. But even so, we are to always prayerfully do our best to be as obedient to God as is possible in daily life. We are not to allow ourselves to become lazy about fighting against our sinful tendencies.
‘...He led captivity captive...’
Eph 4:9
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
KJV
Answer: If Jesus hadn't died on the cross for our sins, we'd all be helpless slaves to sin and the devil. But by HIs dying on the cross, Jesus provided a way for people who sincerely seek Him, to be set free from the devil and the penalty of their sins. They are saved from all of that, through God's grace (Ephesians 4:7), demonstrated on the cross.

Hiya,
I’ve been going on about this for a years now. When We were first saved, we had a Bible teacher, who taught us about sanctification. (This is only my opinion), but I instantly knew that it was a real gift from The Lord. For now, not later. I firmly believe that we have to have faith in this doctrine/gift in order to receive it, and also believe it comes in the form of deliverance-from sin, addiction or whatever...I have experienced this, but there are other areas (that are just as bad) where I still struggle. I don’t know how The Lord works, or His ways. He knows what we need more than we do 😊

Reformyourself · Jun 9, 2020

Psalm 116:8
For You have delivered my soul from death,
My eyes from tears,
And my feet from falling.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 9, 2020

Adstar said:

It looks to me that all who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, are regarded by the term, "saints" throughout the New Testament, after the gospel books of the Bible. But I've noticed that whole churches, were addressed as "saints" - and yet, I also see evidence that not all were fully mature Christians. Since the New Testament books now and then - warn believers against falling away. Etc. I think it often takes at least a while before new believers become mature in the Lord. Though no doubt, there may be some who arrive at full spiritual maturity right at the same time they came to the Lord and let HIm into their life. Or shortly afterwards. But I think the scriptures indicate that it is when Christians are fully surrendered to God, that they are no longer in danger of falling away. I know I am fully surrendered to God. And can remember times in my past when I was not.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 9, 2020

Reformyourself said:

Well, any time you sincerely struggle against sin and pray regularly for victory over it, it shows you are fully surrendered to God. But anyone who does not sincerely struggle against sin, is not a strong Christian - or is allowing Himself to drift away.

MyrtleTrees · Jun 9, 2020

Reformyourself said:

We aren't to look too hard at feelings. The important thing is to prayerfully CHOOSE to do what's right in all things. And our "righteous" title comes from God. So we just need to claim that we love others, but at the same time, keep asking God to help us to grow in our love for others. Just like the man who wanted healing said he believed but asked Jesus to help his unbelief.
Mark 9:24

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
KJV

How to perceive Christians who are carnal and babes? 1 Cor. 3: 1-3.

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