"Not by works" - false!

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Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

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May 22, 2020
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Judges1318 said:
Faith is the evidence of things not seen.
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That is not an accurate definition, though close, it is a characteristic of Faith. Besides, it is not the definition you gave me in previous posts.

Please agree to use the dictionary as a common source of understanding, otherwise, communication is to muddled to continue.

Here's another dictionary definition: belief and trust in and loyalty to God
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#2,122
#2,122
Fastfredy0 said:
This is interesting...if true then no Roman Catholic that adheres to R.C. theology would be saved.

I lean to your side but wonder if a person can saved yet wrongly believe they must do something (works) to be saved. Galatians 5:2 has always intrigued me.

Aside: I am not talking about doing something like BELIEVING ... I will take that off the table for this post.
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One who is trusting in their works is saved is trusting in a different gospel (gal3)

There is only one gospel which saves
 
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Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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Fastfredy0 said:
I agree with most of your post assuming you are using your words as defined in the dictionary.

I don't agree with your statement above; though I can see how you might misinterpret what I have said.

I do not say we do nothing for our salvation. (I have to be careful here, as you use the word FAITH differently than other source)
Aside: Gee, I will just talk using FAITH as everyone else understands it ... you will have to use the dictionary to understand

We are saved by Faith... we do do something. The reason, IMO, we do believe is God first changes one's heart the this is the cause of our belief which is the effect. God causes us to believe (effect).
In short, regeneration precedes Faith and it is the Spirit that regenerates.
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The simple testimony of the Spirit showing a person the gospel really is true is sufficient for a person to choose to believe. Look at King Saul. When the Spirit was present he was great. When the Spirit was not present he was a jealous, murderous jerk.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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May 19, 2020
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Judges1318 said:
Yes, he said, "you can't hold yourself".
He said, "If your trying to do that. You have failed already".
I submit to you that if you're not holding onto Christ that you have failed.

To them it's a one sided street: You do nothing (or else that would be works), and Christ does all the holding.
That's not true.
As I've shown, he holds us, while we hold onto him, through our faith.
They say believing is a work of the works gospel if you do it.
Ask 'em.
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Hi Judges,how are you holding onto God?
By believing in your mind?
If the Lord is in your heart.....how would you be holding onto him?
When he is in your heart.....that’s it .....over to the Holy Spirit.
What is the role of the Holy Spirit in a believers heart?
Why has he taken up residence in your heart?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#2,125
#2,125
Chris1975 said:
I will argue like you all argue --- I believe in Jesus. Therefore I was saved at a point in time "back then". Therefore irrespective of whether I fall away from the faith now, or whether I NOW want to work for salvation, I CANNOT lose my salvation.
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Salvation is all from God .. from start to finish and He finishes what He starts.

Your words are deceptive because we cannot fall away from "the faith"... we can fall from grace... as in relying on self rather than Jesus.

But then how would you know having always relied on self for salvation?
If salvation is not secure then you are relying in self. Yet scripture is clear salvation is all from God start to finish.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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#2,126
May 19, 2020
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#2,126
Judges1318 said:
The simple testimony of the Spirit showing a person the gospel really is true is sufficient for a person to choose to believe. Look at King Saul. When the Spirit was present he was great. When the Spirit was not present he was a jealous, murderous jerk.
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The Holy Spirit is always present in a believers heart.....he is with me always....that is called a relationship....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,127
#2,127
Judges1318 said:
He won't.
That's why you should keep believing in him.
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He won’t. That’s why I can never lose salvation and WILL continue to believe because as John said. I know I have eternal life


Wait.
Didn't you say he does that, not you?
I'm pretty sure you've been saying that is you trying to save yourself if you're basing your faith on his salvation.
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This is why I ignored your nonsense and am about to again. You twist everything we say

My hope is in Christ. And is the basis of my faith How in Gods name is that saving myself?

Your hope is in your power to
Continue to believe

One day you will know the difference whether you want to or not
 
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Micaiah-imla

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Feb 29, 2020
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jackrosie said:
my Lord has put a barrier up and Satan will never penetrate it again....”NEVER”.
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1 Peter 5:8-9
[8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: [9] Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

The scriptures consistently tells us to continue in the faith for a reason. Those who’s faith fail are in grave danger of loosing their defense against Satan.

Jesus himself told Peter...

Luke 22:31-32
[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

OSAS is a fairytale.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
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May 22, 2020
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eternally-gratefull said:
One who is trusting in their works is saved is trusting in a different gospel (gal3)

There is only one gospel which saves
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Aside: I am sympathetic to your position

I will use a silly example to ensure I understand your position.

We have a hypothetical person who is the model Christian in every way. (aside: which is much better than I am) But he believes he must give a nickel at Christmas to the "Help the Children Fund" or he will not be saved.
Aside: Yeah, I know a silly example, but it works for purpose of clarifying your position.

Aside: Acting as this guys lawyer I would state in his defense: My client sinned by incorrectly thinking he must give a nickel to the "Help the Children Fund"... but, as with his other sins, I state he is forgivenfor it is part of the gospel that God forgives all sins of believers. Defense rests.

Now the Question: In your opinion, is this guy salvifically saved?
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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May 19, 2020
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Micaiah-imla said:
1 Peter 5:8-9
[8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: [9] Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

The scriptures consistently tells us to continue in the faith for a reason. Those who’s faith fail are in grave danger of loosing their defense against Satan.

Jesus himself told Peter...

Luke 22:31-32
[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

OSAS is a fairytale.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Click to expand...


Satan attack’s the mind.....he can’t touch my heart.
Can you answer this question....just a yes or no.....are you alive in the Spirit?
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

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May 22, 2020
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Judges1318 said:
Look at King Saul. When the Spirit was present he was great. When the Spirit was not present he was a jealous, murderous jerk.
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Irrelevant has the Spirit in Saul was not for that task of salvation and the subject is salvation ... I think we gone done a tangent to far to recover. ;)
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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May 19, 2020
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Micaiah-imla said:
Show me where scripture says this then I’ll answer your question.
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Do you look to scripture for every answer?

Do you believe everything that Jesus did on earth was recorded in the Bible...what I mean is all of what he did?
I asked you a question are you alive in the Spirit...yes or no?
 
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Micaiah-imla

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Feb 29, 2020
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jackrosie said:
Do you look to scripture for every answer?
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Absolutely!

I am very concerned that you would ask such a question.

Isaiah 8:19-20
[19] ...should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? [20] To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself the question of whether or not you are alive in the Spirit.
 
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Micaiah-imla

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Feb 29, 2020
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gb9 said:
what you need to demolish is your silly idea that you do not sin..
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I’m a saint and pursue a lifestyle that testifies to this.

You’re a sinner, so perhaps your lifestyle reflects the same.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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May 19, 2020
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#2,138
Micaiah-imla said:
Absolutely!

I am very concerned that you would ask such a question.

Isaiah 8:19-20
[19] ...should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? [20] To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Perhaps you need to ask yourself the question of whether or not you are alive in the Spirit.
Click to expand...

Ok....I don’t agree..that everything that Jesus did on his time on earth that it was all recorded in the Bible
Do you mean you are absolutely alive in the spirit?
 
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