The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

No one ever taught me. When the Lord first called me, I was immediately drawn to end-time events and have been studying it to this very day. I live in the book of Revelation. I know what I am talking about and what I'm contending for. I have reiterated over and over more times than I can count these truths, but people will not budge from the false teachings that they have adopted. But instead they utilize already exiting false apologetics or make up new ones. No matter which way anyone slices it, they cannot get past the underlying principle, that because Christ already took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely, then the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer and therefore cannot go through the time of God's coming wrath. It is a legal precedent. And since God's wrath must be poured out right up to Christ's return to the earth to end the age, then the church cannot and will not enter that time of wrath and must be removed prior to the first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath.


C |-------------------------------------- CHURCH IN HEAVEN AT THE WEDDING FEAST ---------------------------------|
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H |<----------------------------------------------- G O D 'S W R A T H ------------------------------------------------------->| -- CHRIST RETURNS
|<-------------------------------------S E A L S / T R U M P E T S / B O W L S------------------------------------------->| -- TO END THE AGE
G |<---------------------------------------------- S E V E N Y E A R S ------------------------------------------------------->| -- SATAN BOUND IN ABYSS
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Matthew 24:29-31 is the event of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and is not the gathering of the church, which are two separate events. In fact, the church/bride will be with the Lord following Him our of heaven to the earth riding on white horses:

"For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride (church) has made herself ready. She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”

"The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses."

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb (as He's descending to earth), but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

The called, chosen and faithful followers, will be those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up.

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints,"



No, but you are teaching false teachings, claiming that the church is going to go through God's wrath and thereby denying that Christ took upon himself God's wrath on our behalf, satisfying it completely. By your teaching, the appearing of the Lord to gather His church would be no blessed hope at all. And there would be no reason for believers to comfort each other with the promise of the Lord's appearing and that because you have us going through the same wrath as the wicked. Yet God does not punish the righteous with the wicked, but you have Him doing so by your belief.



That the pre-trib teaching didn't appear until the 1820's is ridiculous, because I came to my conclusion reading the word of God. Therefore, this teaching appeared in the word of God way before 1820. All that you are doing is repeating a well-known false teaching with Scofield as the culprit who invented the pretribulation gathering of the church. Well, I've never read anything by Scofield and so I didn't get it from Him. Until you and others understand the underlying principle, you will not understand why the church must and will be gathered prior to God's wrath being poured out. As it is, you have a poor outlook on what Christ accomplished on our behalf. By your belief, you're basically saying 'yes' and 'no' in the same breath.

Make no mistake, this is not a minor issue.


God's wrath satisfied
========================================================
Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows;
yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and afflicted.
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.

In love, it's you who dosent budge from dispensationalism's grip, I followed the false teaching for 20 years, sitting in the Baptist churches pew shouting amen!
I didn't have a clue who John N. Darby or C.I. Scofield were, or anything about their foundations in the false teachings of a pre-trib rapture, dual Covenant Theology, or millennialism.

I'm sure you believe in Moses/Aaron and the plagues of Egypt, and you believe the Hebrews were separated from these plagues, as none fell upon the Hebrews as I do?

I'm sure you believe the "Two Witnesses" will be present during the tribulation, bringing "Plagues/Wrath" upon the world as seen in the Revelation as I do, however you continue claim that if the church were present, that the "Plagues/Wrath" seen will fall upon the believer, giving complete disregard to God's miraculous power as seen in the Exodus?
Gods words below clearly teaches that the plagues/Wrath/judgement falls upon the wicked, as you give complete disregard to this truth.
Do you believe these plagues/Wrath/judgement will come upon the 144,000 and the tribulation saints that you believe will be present during the tribulation?

Cant you see the conflict in your teaching, the church isn't the (Men, They, Them) seen below?
God will divinely protect (The Church) in the tribulation from the plagues/Wrath/judgement, just as the Hebrews were protected in the Exodus.

Matthew 24:29-31 is the event of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and is not the gathering of the church, which are two separate events. In fact, the church/bride will be with the Lord following Him our of heaven to the earth riding on white horses:

"For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride (church) has made herself ready. She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”

"The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses."

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb (as He's descending to earth), but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

The called, chosen and faithful followers, will be those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up.

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints,"



No, but you are teaching false teachings, claiming that the church is going to go through God's wrath and thereby denying that Christ took upon himself God's wrath on our behalf, satisfying it completely. By your teaching, the appearing of the Lord to gather His church would be no blessed hope at all. And there would be no reason for believers to comfort each other with the promise of the Lord's appearing and that because you have us going through the same wrath as the wicked. Yet God does not punish the righteous with the wicked, but you have Him doing so by your belief.



That the pre-trib teaching didn't appear until the 1820's is ridiculous, because I came to my conclusion reading the word of God. Therefore, this teaching appeared in the word of God way before 1820. All that you are doing is repeating a well-known false teaching with Scofield as the culprit who invented the pretribulation gathering of the church. Well, I've never read anything by Scofield and so I didn't get it from Him. Until you and others understand the underlying principle, you will not understand why the church must and will be gathered prior to God's wrath being poured out. As it is, you have a poor outlook on what Christ accomplished on our behalf. By your belief, you're basically saying 'yes' and 'no' in the same breath.

Make no mistake, this is not a minor issue.


God's wrath satisfied
========================================================
Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows;
yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and afflicted.
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.

You falsely suggest that Matthew 24:29-31 is a return of Jesus Christ with a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth following, 100% Error, the entire chapter is devoted to the "Second Coming"
Gods word is very clear as presented, Jesus Christ will return in "Final Judgement" as Matthew 24:51 below clearly shows, the wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth

(Final Judgement)
Matthew 24:46-51KJV
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Parallel Teaching, (Final Judgement)
Luke 13:25-28KJV
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

You know what's ironic? The Jews missed the first coming and the futurists missed the second coming. You are no better off then they were. I kinda think maybe this was the plan; to show the Church it can't be any more uppity than the Jews of the first century, waiting on a Messiah that already came.

The "elect" in this context are those whose lives were spared the great tribulation, approx 98,000 out of 1.2 million. If the tribulation (siege) were allowed to continue much longer no Jewish flesh inside the city would have survived.

This is parallel with the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23]... then a TIME-PERIOD *follows* that, before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words (of that passage) is carried out (just like in Rev19 - 20, there being).


So, this passage isn't showing the "FINAL JUDGMENT" (tho it certainly IS "FINAL" for those persons involved in it at that point in the chronology! THEY DIE! They DON'T *ENTER* the MK age!; But just like in the same way that it is FINAL upon the death of "individuals" today... there's no getting out of "eternal separation from God")... But in the matter of CHRONOLOGY, Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 parallels the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words of Isa24:21-22[23]... not the SECOND (LATER) ONE!

Your claim is false, there is one future judgement, where men are judged to the lake of fire, and this takes place at the second coming, and appearance of Jesus Christ, read and heed, don't twist and bend.

The Final Judgement [ ]
2 Timothy 2:4KJV
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Immediately After The Tribulation The Final Judgement Takes Place, At The Appearance Of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:46-51KJV
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Consider the following few points (to be brief) [and to be clear, both of these distinct groups are "SAVED" persons, existing on the earth in the trib years]:
”

That is over-reading it. These are what we THINK to be two distinct groups of saved people, but not really. Whether saved from a previous life of Jew or Gentile, we all live under one umbrella: that of Christ. But because we treat these groups as different so often, John had the need to spell out both groups. Just as Paul was a Jew to the Jew, and Gentile to the Gentile. He becomes all things for Christ.

Also, your belief that the Great Multitude of Revelation 7 is on the earth on the grounds that they serve in the Temple day and night (and that there is no Temple in Heaven), that doesn't compute, because

the Temple is supposed to be desecrated with the Abomination of Desolation. According to this timeline. The people of God are supposed to be fled to the hills.

The idea that the Gentiles are supposed to worship in the Temple day and night and not the Jews is also a bit odd.

During the trib yrs [7], it is only "those which be in Judaea" who are to "FLEE" (not every person in the entire world... though Lk21:36 "flee out of each and every thing" will ALSO apply at that time, to those who will heed it, of course)

People read way too much into the 144,000, on all sides. All Revelation 7 is saying is that you will find both saved Jews and Gentiles in Heaven (and probably more Gentiles).

No, nothing is being read into who the 144,000, but are exactly who the scriptures say they are, which is 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of natural Israel, equaling 144,000. This group is the first fruits to God and the Lamb out of Israel.

I cannot buy both the idea that a literal 12,000 will be saved and that man has a free will. Either one has to give, or the other. I don't buy into partial predestination, either. John's message is that Jews can be, and will be, saved. So include them in the Church and don't exclude them as "punished". Just as John says there will be even more Gentiles; so don't exclude them, either.

Regarding predestination, scripture states that God foreknew us and predestined us, called us and justified us.

I cannot buy both the idea that a literal 12,000 will be saved and that man has a free will. Either one has to give, or the other. I don't buy into partial predestination, either. [...]

Also, the 12 tribes of Revelation do not match the 12 tribes of Israel. There is a tribe of Joseph now. There was a falling away in the tribe of Dan, and he was cut off. Which matters, because you have the 144,000 as the UNBELIEVING Jews.