Not By Works

See I can not see this

I see god forknew according to his will. That whoever believes in him will
Never perish. That whoever sees and believes will have eternal
Life (be born again).

Not that god chose selected based on some random reason.

Disagree, in your view He has chosen to draw some and left the rest for damnation so the question is why some and not others which you cannot answer.

Stating He has the "right" begs the question.

Wow,

I thought the OSAS/NOSAS debate was a mine field; this free grace/forced grace (Correct terminology?) thing is pretty touchy for some I see.

What I see in scripture is that God offers the free gift of eternal life through repentance and belief. All men have a free will to either receive it, reject it, or come short of it.

John 12:31-32Jesus has been lifted up and is drawing all to Himself.

Disagree, in your view He has chosen to draw some and left the rest for damnation so the question is why some and not others which you cannot answer.

Stating He has the "right" begs the question.

Fatalism involves an impersonal force. Election deals with a loving God who chose to save a multitude who don‘t deserve to be saved to begin with.

Here is where ppl get election and predestination wrong. They think if God elects and predestines some and not all, He has done an injustice to those He left in their fallen state. That’s not true. The elect were just as lost, just as undeserving, just as much the God-hater the non-elect are. There was nothing in the elect that was missing in the non-elect and therefore God elected them. The non-elect weren’t any worse than the elect and therefore God left them in their fallen state.

The elect get grace(unmerited favor) and mercy, neither which they deserved. The non-elect get justice(what they deserve). He does injustice to no one.

I stated no such thing.

My bible teaches..

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Redefining "world" to mean elect does not stand up to scrutiny.

Why are all men held accountable.....? The invisible and visible testifies.......and regardless, he is presenting Calvinism in it's purest form.....so....let me get this straight....The Lord's churches had it wrong until Calvin, an ex-Catholic penned his doctrine...

Not hardy!

Why are all men held accountable

God is love and this doesn't seem/feel very loving does it? so we are right to question it i guess.


take a physical Father for instance. this is not at all how he would act. you don't just help some of your children, you help them all. you dont just save some from danger if you can every time - you save them ALL.


except in a backward society maybe or maybe just with not a very big heart. a small heart in a backwards society and yeah, makes sense.


but how big is GOD'S HEART??????

Wow,

I thought the OSAS/NOSAS debate was a mine field; this free grace/forced grace (Correct terminology?) thing is pretty touchy for some I see.

What I see in scripture is that God offers the free gift of eternal life through repentance and belief. All men have a free will to either receive it, reject it, or come short of it.

God is love and this doesn't seem/feel very loving does it? so we are right to question it i guess.


take a physical Father for instance. this is not at all how he would act. you don't just help some of your children, you help them all. you dont just save some from danger if you can every time - you save them ALL.


except in a backward society maybe or maybe just with not a very big heart. a small heart in a backwards society and yeah, makes sense.


but how big is GOD'S HEART??

Amen and MANY are called, but few CHOSEN....GRACE is indeed resistible!

I preached one on one to several people this week including one Jewish person. Did these people reject the gospel of Jesus Christ willingly? As far as I could tell, Yes they did.

I guess you mean by COME SHORT of IT, means No Grace at ALL, thinking they can be good enough, to deserve heaven.

I do not remember if I told you, how come I came to Believe wholehearted in OSAS Theology. It was because of my personal experience of being SAVED after 3 attempts at suicide the last week of 1977. Prior to that I was just a church-goer and a proud Lutheran, thinking my infant Baptism meant I was saved. NOT EVEN CLOSE, went to church regularly, had the whole order of service Memorized, day-dreamed through Every Sermon, was PROUD the I went to Lutheran Service Volunteers (summer camp at the Lutheran College), was an Acolyte (Altar Boy) another source of pride, ETC. I was A LUTHERAN, LUTHERAN, NOT A Christian Lutheran.

Two nights I had a Pistol against my TEMPLE, with the Trigger half PULLED; the IMMENSE TERROR I FELT at the MOMENT, was strictly because I KNEW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, I was about to walk into Hades/Hell, if I finished pulling that trigger.

After weeping for hours, "Forgive me LORD", over and over again, even during the Dream or Vision, where AT HIS CROSS, I felt HIS WARM blood fall on my Forearms as I reached up to HIM from my KNEES. I felt the Holy Spirit come into my HEART (Human Spirit), and CHANGED my HEART FOREVER. I KNEW IT WAS REAL. I KNEW HE INSTANTLY MADE MY HEART TRUST HIM TOTALLY, FOREVER. I KNEW HE HAD A PLAN FOR MY LIFE. IT WAS A COMPLETE SURRENDER TO HIM, OUT OF INTENSE LOVE FOR HIM. And I think one of my PRIMARY Spiritual Gifts was that TOTAL TRUST IN HIM. It is FRESH IN MY MIND, and YES I AM SMILING, as I type this.

THE Church I grew up in, NEVER TAUGHT BORN AGAIN, NEVER TAUGHT THAT TOTAL TRUST IN HIM WAS POSSIBLE, IT ALL HAD TO COME FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT. There is a CHANGE in the HEART, that NEVER FADES. I AM NOT MY OWN, I HAVE BEEN BOUGHT WITH A PRICE.
HE WILL NEVER, LET GO OF ME! AND I KNEW THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, that night of my Third attempt at Suicide. I HAD THE OPPOSITE INTENSE FEELING OF KNOWING THAT I WAS GOING TO STEP INTO HADES/HELL, a couple Days EARLIER, if I finish Pulling that Trigger. It is VERY REAL, so VERY REAL!


Romans 8:30 (HCSB)
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Not everyone is God’s children. All are His creation, only the redeemed are His children.

I preached one on one to several people this week including one Jewish person. Did these people reject the gospel of Jesus Christ willingly? As far as I could tell, Yes they did.

Do you attend some kind of a Wesleyan Church or similar? Supposedly they have some kind of doctrine of the perfect sinless sanctification of saints.

We are not called His children until after we believe by grace through faith.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name.

Berean Bible study says: But to all who did receive Him, to those who
believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God

Correct. But who are those who received Him? Those born of God.[John 1:13] Just like it says those who love are born of God. It is through the new birth a new heart and spirit is given[Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26] and they now love Him.[1 John 4:7]

God is love and this doesn't seem/feel very loving does it? so we are right to question it i guess.


take a physical Father for instance. this is not at all how he would act. you don't just help some of your children, you help them all. you dont just save some from danger if you can every time - you save them ALL.


except in a backward society maybe or maybe just with not a very big heart. a small heart in a backwards society and yeah, makes sense.


but how big is GOD'S HEART??