Not by the works of the law, but by the works of faith.

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Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#1
Jul 6, 2020
905
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#1
The kind of works is what matters. When the apostle makes clear he is speaking about he works of the law (Faith in yourself, your good hardheartedness, your understanding of scriptures, your kindness and compassion).
You cant ignore that he is speaking about the works of LAW, the acceptability of your life apart from the life of Christ Jesus alive in you.
Neither can you ignore James when he says Abraham was saved by works. We all know that their is only one way to be saved, by actively placing our faith in Gods finished so we might lay hold of it for ourselves.

The error on the right is working to make your own salvation
Romans 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

The narrow path is working in faith to receive the promise of salvation.
Mathew 13:44 - The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Giving your all to possess it! Giving your all is the constant theme in these parables.

Fearfully and carefully and wholeheartedly working out your salvation into your life, possessing it and benefiting from it.
Philippians 2;15 - so that you may become blameless and pure, "children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation." Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky

The error on the left is to reject works of obedience to faith.
James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
In Abraham faith and works together shows us what it means to believe God. Shows us how to lay hold of salvation and be attributed righteousness.


DO NOT SUFFER LOSS IN REGARDS TO YOUR SALVATION.
1 Cor 3:15 - Your works in Faith will be tested by fire
Leave nothing on the table, avail yourself of it all.

Satan would have you believe that giving yourself over to working hard in faith, giving it everything you have is somehow making your own way into heaven rather then real belief in God and Jesus. It is no wonder the church is just as sinful if not worse then the world.


We do not have the fullness of salvation in the stature of Christ Jesus because we do not ask for it or we don't actually believe it is our birthright.

We clearly have our part to play in the laying hold of salvation and the working of it out into our lives.
It is a new life and it is beyond your ability make it happen, but God can do what we can not.
But it will cost you your old life in order to posses it.


Are you working in faith to have it all?
Our salvation is Christ in you, God in you.
How great a salvation we have!
How much of it will we lay hold of and how much of it will we neglect?
Time is short...
 
P

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
#2
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
63
#2
Lion222 said:
DO NOT SUFFER LOSS IN REGARDS TO YOUR SALVATION.
1 Cor 3:15 - Your works in Faith will be tested by fire
Leave nothing on the table, avail yourself of it all.

Satan would have you believe that giving yourself over to working hard in faith, giving it everything you have is somehow making your own way into heaven rather then real belief in God and Jesus. It is no wonder the church is just as sinful if not worse then the world.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you. Salvation is earned and not given by being loyal and also obedience.
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#3
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#3
Prycejosh1987 said:
Totally agree with you. Salvation is earned and not given by being loyal and also obedience.
Click to expand...
Its both.
Its like getting the total workout gym for Christmas.
You have it, its there, its yours, it totally belongs to you.
What you do with it and how you benefit from it or not that depends on you.

Not the perfect example because the gift of having it includes the life and ability needed to make use of it and become strong.
Strong in that life. That is our working out our salvation. Muscles tremble when lifting heavy weights. The weighty things of God.
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#4
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#4
Lion222 said:
The kind of works is what matters. When the apostle makes clear he is speaking about he works of the law (Faith in yourself, your good hardheartedness, your understanding of scriptures, your kindness and compassion).
You cant ignore that he is speaking about the works of LAW, the acceptability of your life apart from the life of Christ Jesus alive in you.
Neither can you ignore James when he says Abraham was saved by works. We all know that their is only one way to be saved, by actively placing our faith in Gods finished so we might lay hold of it for ourselves.

The error on the right is working to make your own salvation
Romans 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

The narrow path is working in faith to receive the promise of salvation.
Mathew 13:44 - The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Giving your all to possess it! Giving your all is the constant theme in these parables.

Fearfully and carefully and wholeheartedly working out your salvation into your life, possessing it and benefiting from it.
Philippians 2;15 - so that you may become blameless and pure, "children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation." Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky

The error on the left is to reject works of obedience to faith.
James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
In Abraham faith and works together shows us what it means to believe God. Shows us how to lay hold of salvation and be attributed righteousness.


DO NOT SUFFER LOSS IN REGARDS TO YOUR SALVATION.
1 Cor 3:15 - Your works in Faith will be tested by fire
Leave nothing on the table, avail yourself of it all.

Satan would have you believe that giving yourself over to working hard in faith, giving it everything you have is somehow making your own way into heaven rather then real belief in God and Jesus. It is no wonder the church is just as sinful if not worse then the world.


We do not have the fullness of salvation in the stature of Christ Jesus because we do not ask for it or we don't actually believe it is our birthright.

We clearly have our part to play in the laying hold of salvation and the working of it out into our lives.
It is a new life and it is beyond your ability make it happen, but God can do what we can not.
But it will cost you your old life in order to posses it.


Are you working in faith to have it all?
Our salvation is Christ in you, God in you.
How great a salvation we have!
How much of it will we lay hold of and how much of it will we neglect?
Time is short...
Click to expand...
I noticed that in every verse you posted as a means to salvation, the word "salvation" did not appear in that verse. In;
  1. Romans 3:20 the "righteousness" that is acceptable to God is the subject, and it cannot be worked for. It is imputed.
  2. Matthew 13:44 the subject is the Kingdom OF Heaven - not salvation. The Kingdom OF Heaven is when our Lord Jesus returns, defeats the Gentile armies at Armageddon and sets of a kingdom in which the rules of Heaven are enforced on earth. This is what He prayed for in Matthew 6:10. Not a Kingdom IN Heaven, but a Kingdom (OUT) OF Heaven.
  3. Philippians 2:15 does concern "salvation" but it concerns your "OWN salvation" (v.12). It does not concern what Christ has DONE. Man is made of three parts - (i) body, (ii) spirit and (iii) soul. The body is "saved" by resurrection. The spirit is "saved" by rebirth (Jn.3:6). But the soul is saved by YOU adding virtues to your faith (2nd Pet.1:5-11). This salvation is to enter the Kingdom when Christ sets it up on earth (v.11) - which is your "calling and election" (v.10). This "salvation" does not save you from the Lake of Fire.
  4. James 2:24 concerns "justification". Justification is the opinion of a judge as to whether your WORKS were legal or not
  5. 1st Corinthians 3:12-15 concerns your work in the Church (God's building and God's field) AFTER you become a Christian. The subject is reward and loss. The "salvation" at the end of verse 15 is a worst-case-scenario, not "good news". According to your theory a man cannot be saved without the commensurate works. 1st Corinthians 3:15 says he is.
I understand the dilemma. Contemporary Christianity teaches that "salvation" is going to heaven. And James, and a lot of scriptures seem to teach that you have to earn this. But the Bible teaches that there are two different things. (1) Being saved from the consequences of your sins, being justified and having the imputed righteousness of Christ for your dealings with a holy God. This you or I cannot do. It is a work outside of us completed by Christ and had ONLY by FAITH. (2) Being saved from a fallen character, being saved from a "body of death" and entering Christ's Kingdom as a co-king when He sets it up on earth after His return (Lk.19:17-19; Rev.2:27). If you are still not sure, peruse 1st Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5. You will immediately see that our WORKS (or lack of them) do not change the status of a Christian EXCEPT concerning the Kingdom when Christ sets it up on earth at His return.

God's purpose with man is found in Genesis 1:26-28. God has not changed His mind, and His councils are immutable. We are "saved" by FAITH in the completed works of Christ FOR THE DUTY subduing and ruling THE EARTH. To qualify for this "ruling" we need to be saved from ourselves - our serpentine nature and body of death inherited from Adam. This needs our cooperation.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#5
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#5
Lion222 said:
The kind of works is what matters. When the apostle makes clear he is speaking about he works of the law (Faith in yourself, your good hardheartedness, your understanding of scriptures, your kindness and compassion).
You cant ignore that he is speaking about the works of LAW, the acceptability of your life apart from the life of Christ Jesus alive in you.
Neither can you ignore James when he says Abraham was saved by works. We all know that their is only one way to be saved, by actively placing our faith in Gods finished so we might lay hold of it for ourselves.

The error on the right is working to make your own salvation
Romans 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

The narrow path is working in faith to receive the promise of salvation.
Mathew 13:44 - The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Giving your all to possess it! Giving your all is the constant theme in these parables.

Fearfully and carefully and wholeheartedly working out your salvation into your life, possessing it and benefiting from it.
Philippians 2;15 - so that you may become blameless and pure, "children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation." Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky

The error on the left is to reject works of obedience to faith.
James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
In Abraham faith and works together shows us what it means to believe God. Shows us how to lay hold of salvation and be attributed righteousness.


DO NOT SUFFER LOSS IN REGARDS TO YOUR SALVATION.
1 Cor 3:15 - Your works in Faith will be tested by fire
Leave nothing on the table, avail yourself of it all.

Satan would have you believe that giving yourself over to working hard in faith, giving it everything you have is somehow making your own way into heaven rather then real belief in God and Jesus. It is no wonder the church is just as sinful if not worse then the world.


We do not have the fullness of salvation in the stature of Christ Jesus because we do not ask for it or we don't actually believe it is our birthright.

We clearly have our part to play in the laying hold of salvation and the working of it out into our lives.
It is a new life and it is beyond your ability make it happen, but God can do what we can not.
But it will cost you your old life in order to posses it.


Are you working in faith to have it all?
Our salvation is Christ in you, God in you.
How great a salvation we have!
How much of it will we lay hold of and how much of it will we neglect?
Time is short...
Click to expand...
Yep I agree. Salvation require faith in Jesus.
My bible study teacher in my church say the judgement of in Matt 25 is only for non believer because Jesus say to the group of people in the right, you save because you feed me when I am hungry etc.
Salvation not by work how jesus save this people base on what they did.
So my teacher believe this people is non believer that doing good.

And this is inconsistent

He believe salvation not by work, than he believe salvation of this group by work.

To me salvation not by work but by faith and the people on the right is the people with real faith
Real faith
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#6
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#6
Corban said:
I noticed that in every verse you posted as a means to salvation, the word "salvation" did not appear in that verse. In;.
Click to expand...
Seriously?

Because it says "Saved" or "declared righteous" or "justified' instead of "Salvation" that is what you throw stones at?

You really are fixated on this not going to heaven teaching. - Hope that works out for you.
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#7
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#7
Jackson123 said:
Yep I agree. Salvation require faith in Jesus.
My bible study teacher in my church say the judgement of in Matt 25 is only for non believer because Jesus say to the group of people in the right, you save because you feed me when I am hungry etc.
Salvation not by work how jesus save this people base on what they did.
So my teacher believe this people is non believer that doing good.

And this is inconsistent

He believe salvation not by work, than he believe salvation of this group by work.

To me salvation not by work but by faith and the people on the right is the people with real faith
Real faith
Click to expand...
As simple as i know how to put it:

God cares about your hearts motive. - That is what all of this is about.
It is not what you do, but why you are doing it that matters.

Do you believe in his love for you, His guiding you, His providing for you?

if so why are your striving to be good enough? That is error on the right of the path. The works of the law crowd
if you love Him why are you not working at pleasing him? That is error on the left of the path. The refusing to do any works crowd.

The error is the same on both sides just different outward expressions
They don't believe or receive the love of God so as to love Him Back.
Or their faith in His love is weak, so they wander off the righteous path.

In the middle on the narrow path are we who love him in word and deed AKA works.
Called according to his purposes to do the good works He has for us to do from a heart to be pleasing in His sight.
Because have the kind of faith that saves
Faith that results in love from a pure heart that overflows into the obedience of faith and the works of faith.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#10
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#10
Lion222 said:
As simple as i know how to put it:

God cares about your hearts motive. - That is what all of this is about.
It is not what you do, but why you are doing it that matters.

Do you believe in his love for you, His guiding you, His providing for you?

if so why are your striving to be good enough? That is error on the right of the path. The works of the law crowd
if you love Him why are you not working at pleasing him? That is error on the left of the path. The refusing to do any works crowd.

The error is the same on both sides just different outward expressions
They don't believe or receive the love of God so as to love Him Back.
Or their faith in His love is weak, so they wander off the righteous path.

In the middle on the narrow path are we who love him in word and deed AKA works.
Called according to his purposes to do the good works He has for us to do from a heart to be pleasing in His sight.
Because have the kind of faith that saves
Faith that results in love from a pure heart that overflows into the obedience of faith and the works of faith.
Click to expand...
Yep. Real faith bear fruit of love. And love may translate to help other. But help other may not because of love
For example a doctor help patient, it may because of love or because he want money for his help.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#11
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#11
It is so strange that some people can't understand that having faith in the Lord gives faith in what He tells us as well as having faith in His ability to grant salvation. They even feel that God forgives the sin they cling to and will not give to the Lord for the forgiveness the Lord offers. They have the scriptures that tells them it is their faith that saves, not works, so they have faith in the Lord's ability to save and no faith in God's guidance.
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#13
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#13
Lion222 said:
Seriously?

Because it says "Saved" or "declared righteous" or "justified' instead of "Salvation" that is what you throw stones at?

You really are fixated on this not going to heaven teaching. - Hope that works out for you.
Click to expand...
Throw stones? What is our purpose on this Forum if not to discuss? You made telling statements about salvation and then used not a single scripture that addressed salvation. If I am wrong I need to hear what is right from men like you. In your initial posting you wrote prolifically. Why not post a couple of scriptures that show God giving up His plan for man and the earth, leaving it to Satan, and dragging men off to heaven as their destiny. This is what I see ...
  1. God makes man to subdue and rule the earth and its environs of sea and sky (Gen.1.26-28)
  2. God makes a Covenant with Abraham and his seed for a Land with defined borders (Gen.17:8)
  3. God makes a Covenant with Abraham and his seed for an "everlasting possession" (Gen.17:8)
  4. God extends this Covenant to the whole earth (Rom.4:13)
  5. Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2 confirm that man is to rule where the cattle live
  6. Daniel predicts that Christ's rule will replace the Gentile rule and "fill the earth" (Dan.2:35)
  7. Daniel predicts that Christ's rule will replace the Gentile rule and be "for ever" (Dan.2:44)
  8. Christ is to rule the nations (Rev.19:14)
  9. Christ is to inherit the earth (Heb.1:2)
  10. Christ is to sit on David's throne (Isa.9:7)
  11. Christ returns to earth in glory and never returns to heaven
  12. The Kingdoms of this earth become Christ's Kingdom after 42 months of Great Tribulation (Rev.11:15)
  13. New Jerusalem comes out of heaven to the Renewed Earth
  14. The saints of the Most High reign on earth forever (Rev.22:5)
Would I be a responsible servant if I did not point this out? I think that we have a crucial theme that every Christian should know about. What do you think? Have I missed something?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
Prycejosh1987 said:
Totally agree with you. Salvation is earned and not given by being loyal and also obedience.
Click to expand...
So you think you can earn salvation

Wow. Wonder what god thinks of this?

Oh wait. Paul in Titus tells us

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (good deeds) WHICH WE HAVE DONE but By HIS MERCY HE SAVED US (a completed action) By the washing and renewal of the HS
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#15
Apr 7, 2014
25,477
13,420
113
58
#15
eternally-gratefull said:
So you think you can earn salvation

Wow. Wonder what god thinks of this?

Oh wait. Paul in Titus tells us

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (good deeds) WHICH WE HAVE DONE but By HIS MERCY HE SAVED US (a completed action) By the washing and renewal of the HS
Click to expand...
Nobody can earn their salvation. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) We are also NOT saved by works. Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, (Paul is using the term "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous," saved by works) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#16
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#16
eternally-gratefull said:
So you think you can earn salvation

Wow. Wonder what god thinks of this?

Oh wait. Paul in Titus tells us

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (good deeds) WHICH WE HAVE DONE but By HIS MERCY HE SAVED US (a completed action) By the washing and renewal of the HS
Click to expand...
You state the truth that salvation is given to us by the grace of God, and then you change the subject to speak about works. How do you think the works that you are mislabeling as earning salvation and grace work together in our scripture?

There is no scripture to back up your "earning salvation".
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Blik said:
You state the truth that salvation is given to us by the grace of God, and then you change the subject to speak about works. How do you think the works that you are mislabeling as earning salvation and grace work together in our scripture?

There is no scripture to back up your "earning salvation".
Click to expand...
you need to reread my post. Your way out in left field
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#18
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#18
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. - 2 Thes 2:13
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#19
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#19
Blik said:
It is so strange that some people can't understand that having faith in the Lord gives faith in what He tells us as well as having faith in His ability to grant salvation. They even feel that God forgives the sin they cling to and will not give to the Lord for the forgiveness the Lord offers. They have the scriptures that tells them it is their faith that saves, not works, so they have faith in the Lord's ability to save and no faith in God's guidance.
Click to expand...
I can see the comic strip in my head.

Big road, big sign with arrow saying REPENT pointing to very narrow road.
Some guy with a Jesus tee-shirt walks right by it, his one companion turn off at repentance and looking back at his friend saying hey what are you doing? His friend replies, no worries, my faith is in God.
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#20
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#20
When the Jewish authorities sought a charge against Jesus they leveled at him that his men were gleaning the fields on the Sabbath, and thereby working in violation of the law. To this charge, Jesus brought up David when he was fleeing Saul taking the showbread and giving it to his men even though it was dedicated to the Lord.

The manner in which this example was proferred seems to indicate that there is a lesson to be learned, especially when coupled with His declaration of the Sabbath being made for the man and not the man for the Sabbath.

Righteousness is not a matter of works. Yet men chase what they must do to become righteous/stay righteous. Justification by faith is certainly not a matter of refusing to work, but it is a recognition that the righteous live by their faith. It defines us, and out of that faith works naturally flow not because there is an obligation or any particular inclination to work but because works done is faith realized.

Some declare this relationship to be one of faith producing fruit, and the analogy isn't far off. Works will be the natural outcome of a true faith, and we are justified by works because the action producing such works and the existence of faith are one and the same, believing God.
 
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