The New Covenant

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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#21
I loved your answer. How few there are who admit that when a seeming anomaly arises that both must be true and we have not yet had light on the reconciliation of these seeming conflicting scriptures. Here, I hope, is the answer to the previous posting which raises the dilemma.

Israel had a Contract of Law. They broke it and the penalties of this Contract (Lev.26, Deut.28) came into force. You can even see them today in action. Israel is persecuted, dispersed among the nations and have foreign kings ruling over them. Jesus came and presented Himself as a Lamb to deal with the major problem of SIN and SINS. Israel's problem was not Rome. While under David and keeping the Law, Israel was invincible. Israel's problems came from their sins. This they did not want to hear, and so they rejected Jesus Messiah. They rejected Him THEN, NOW, and right up to the moment He bursts forth from the clouds and they "mourn" (Matt.24:30, Rev.1:7). Thus, Israel was never released from their COVENANT. That why we have a holocaust. That's why not all Jews have returned to their Land. They are still dispersed and persecuted.

When Christ comes the Church is complete, and so He turns to Israel (Act.15:14-16). Hebrews 11:1 defines FAITH. It says that only UNSEEN things produce faith. So when Christ is SEEN, faith is OVER. Israel can NEVER be born again, be sons of God, have eternal life and rule the earth. But they DO HAVE THE COVENANTS. The Covenant of Promise made with Abraham guarantees their Land "as an everlasting possession", and to make sure they are never again kicked out again, they have a New Covenant OF LAW (Jer.31:31-33). This Covenant is "better" (Heb.7:22) because unlike the first Covenant OF LAW at Sinai, it is written in the inward part of the Israelite. Added to this, Israelites get a new heart and a new spirit (Ezek.11:19, etc.).

The reason why this New Covenant seems to be attached to the Church is because it was RATIFIED in Christ's blood. All Covenants between God and fallen man must be ratified by blood (Heb.9:20-22). Christ's blood is NOT ONLY for the Church. True, it isfor us who believe, but the ACT of shedding this blood covers "the SIN of the WORLD" (Jn.1:29) and the "SINS of the WORLD" (1st Jn.2:2). It is the blood that ratifies the New Covenant even though the Covenant is not in effect yet, and Christ's blood is purely for the Father to allow Him to lift the curse caused by Abel's blood - a matter of the earth, not men (Heb.12:24).

Christ's blood does many things. One of them is to ratify the New Covenant of Law which will only come into effect when Israel is UNITED again. The term "God's Law", or "My (God's) Law" IN EVERY CASE in the Old Testament, means the Law of Moses. Israel ONLY get the New Covenant. That is the plain grammar of Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:8. This Covenant is given "in those days" when Israel (ten northern Tribes) and Judah (two southern Tribes) are ONE again. That is why the Law never passes and must still be fulfilled. Christ has fulfilled the Law, but "IT" (the Law) is still to be fulfilled by those under CONTRACT - Israel.

The Church is not involved in the New Covenant. The Church is only bound by the Covenant made with Noah, and the Covenant of Promise made with Abraham (Gal.3:29). Any attempt by the Church to get involved in an Covenant is forbidden (Matt.5:33-37), and any attempt by the Church to get involved in the law of Moses is condemned (Gal.5:4). Israel's future is that predicted by the prophets - the last (and one of the best) was Zachariah at the end of Luke 1.
I'll admit that I didn't study (national) Israel covenant application much in that regard. I really don't see Israel any different from us, even though I'm sure you're right in that there are certain consequences for their actions because of their relationship history with God, that might not hit some other nations that hard, which have never known God. As it goes with the servant that knew better, he gets beaten more because he ought to have done better. They surely need to hear the Gospel to heal and recover. God bless
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,231
6,560
113
#23
a question please, there are statues and commandments that must not be broken with grace always a warning the Old Covenant tells us about the New Covenant
can you explain thank you See Deuteronomy 6:1- 3 Hebrews 10:28 Matthew 5:17
Ah.......now I see...........you are promoting the Law, and the living thereunder, rather than Grace..........which surpassed Law, and is the foundation of the New Covenant........

Ok..........so, you are a Lawkeeper? Well, good luck with that come the day of Judgement
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#24
I'll admit that I didn't study (national) Israel covenant application much in that regard. I really don't see Israel any different from us, even though I'm sure you're right in that there are certain consequences for their actions because of their relationship history with God, that might not hit some other nations that hard, which have never known God. As it goes with the servant that knew better, he gets beaten more because he ought to have done better. They surely need to hear the Gospel to heal and recover. God bless
Israel remains a challenge for the student of scripture. On the one hand they are God's chosen Nation, they have the Covenants and the Law, and the prophets predict a glorious ending (if they are taken literally). On the other hand, no Nation has misbehaved as much as Israel, and Bible students who appreciate God's holiness and righteousness have a hard time understand why a people who did what they did, have any chance with God.

The answer of course is, like in our case too, it is not about us or Israel. It is about God's choice, calling and promises. Our name is already trash. 1st Corinthians 1:26-29 settles who we are. And Israel's history is a gruesome one. But the matter of Israel is about God's reputation. God made a PROMISE to Abraham and his seed. Abraham's seed, Israel, have acted abominably and for our intents and purposes, Israel should be written off. Maybe even God thinks so. He has called the "Lo-ammi" - "you are not my people" (Hos.1:9), and He has divorced them (Jer.3:8). They have broken His Law, killed His prophets, killed the Darling of Heaven - Jesus, and are predited to embrace a Gentile king in the future. They are a stiff-necked people who go to any lengths to thwart God. So, the student of scripture is hard-pressed to find a cause for Israel. And they are right. But the do not count one thing - God's reputation.

When Israel left Egypt and built the Golden Calf, God wanted to annihilate them and give Moses more offspring to start over. Moses showed that He knew God and His character. He appealed to God's reputation - for His Name's Sake (Ex.32:7-14). God made a Promise to Abraham, and the only condition that Israel had to fulfill was circumcision. So God, for His Name's Sake, will fulfill that promise. This si the setting for Romans Chapters 9 to 11. After concluding all men as sinners (Chaopters 1 to 6), with the Law incapable of giving Life (Chapter 7), and only those who turn to the Spirit of God are to be saved (Chapter 8), the reader of Romans must say; "What hope is there for such a wicked People as Israel?"

The answer is in Chapters 9 to 11. Israel, blind in part, deaf, cut out of the kingdom and "ALL concluded in UNBELIEF", will be restored PURELY by mercy. And once again, the Center of this mercy is Christ. The sacrifice of God's Lamb is for the SIN (singular) of the WORLD (Jn.1:29), and for the SINS (plural) of the WORLD (1st Jn.2:2) - WHICH INCLUDES ISRAEL! Israel receive mercy NOT because they turn to Jesus, but because God had a COVENANT with Abraham and his SEED and God never RENEGES. But it must also be said in the same breath, that Israel's SALVATION is not the same as that of the Church. The prophets of Israel NEVER intimate the following
  • Israel cannot be born again for this is by FAITH
  • Israel cannot have eternal life for this is had by FAITH (Jn.3:15-16)
  • Israel cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven for this is only be rebirth (Jn.3:3-5)
  • Israel will be leading NATION on earth but be ruled by the 12 Apostles - Christians
  • Israel will display "terrestrial glory" in resurrection
  • Israel will be resurrected and restored to their Land as ONE NATION under their King - Jesus
  • Israel will be HOST NATION for Emmanuel - Jesus will live in Jerusalem (Zech.14:16)
  • Israel will live in peace and prosperity and serve God without fear
As a comparison, let us see the advantages of FAITH in the Church
  • The Believers are born again
  • The Believers are sons of God
  • The believers partake of the "divine life"
  • The believers will display Christ
  • The believers are heavenly in nature
  • The Believers will display "celestial glory" in resurrection
  • The Believers will rule the earth, sea and sky
  • The Believers are the House of God on earth
  • The Believers have the Holy Spirit dwelling IN them
  • The Believers have fulfilled God's original plan with men
  • The Believers will be famous
I believe that this is enough for now. God bless.
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#25
Israel remains a challenge for the student of scripture. On the one hand they are God's chosen Nation, they have the Covenants and the Law, and the prophets predict a glorious ending (if they are taken literally). On the other hand, no Nation has misbehaved as much as Israel, and Bible students who appreciate God's holiness and righteousness have a hard time understand why a people who did what they did, have any chance with God.

The answer of course is, like in our case too, it is not about us or Israel. It is about God's choice, calling and promises. Our name is already trash. 1st Corinthians 1:26-29 settles who we are. And Israel's history is a gruesome one. But the matter of Israel is about God's reputation. God made a PROMISE to Abraham and his seed. Abraham's seed, Israel, have acted abominably and for our intents and purposes, Israel should be written off. Maybe even God thinks so. He has called the "Lo-ammi" - "you are not my people" (Hos.1:9), and He has divorced them (Jer.3:8). They have broken His Law, killed His prophets, killed the Darling of Heaven - Jesus, and are predited to embrace a Gentile king in the future. They are a stiff-necked people who go to any lengths to thwart God. So, the student of scripture is hard-pressed to find a cause for Israel. And they are right. But the do not count one thing - God's reputation.

When Israel left Egypt and built the Golden Calf, God wanted to annihilate them and give Moses more offspring to start over. Moses showed that He knew God and His character. He appealed to God's reputation - for His Name's Sake (Ex.32:7-14). God made a Promise to Abraham, and the only condition that Israel had to fulfill was circumcision. So God, for His Name's Sake, will fulfill that promise. This si the setting for Romans Chapters 9 to 11. After concluding all men as sinners (Chaopters 1 to 6), with the Law incapable of giving Life (Chapter 7), and only those who turn to the Spirit of God are to be saved (Chapter 8), the reader of Romans must say; "What hope is there for such a wicked People as Israel?"

The answer is in Chapters 9 to 11. Israel, blind in part, deaf, cut out of the kingdom and "ALL concluded in UNBELIEF", will be restored PURELY by mercy. And once again, the Center of this mercy is Christ. The sacrifice of God's Lamb is for the SIN (singular) of the WORLD (Jn.1:29), and for the SINS (plural) of the WORLD (1st Jn.2:2) - WHICH INCLUDES ISRAEL! Israel receive mercy NOT because they turn to Jesus, but because God had a COVENANT with Abraham and his SEED and God never RENEGES. But it must also be said in the same breath, that Israel's SALVATION is not the same as that of the Church. The prophets of Israel NEVER intimate the following
  • Israel cannot be born again for this is by FAITH
  • Israel cannot have eternal life for this is had by FAITH (Jn.3:15-16)
  • Israel cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven for this is only be rebirth (Jn.3:3-5)
  • Israel will be leading NATION on earth but be ruled by the 12 Apostles - Christians
  • Israel will display "terrestrial glory" in resurrection
  • Israel will be resurrected and restored to their Land as ONE NATION under their King - Jesus
  • Israel will be HOST NATION for Emmanuel - Jesus will live in Jerusalem (Zech.14:16)
  • Israel will live in peace and prosperity and serve God without fear
As a comparison, let us see the advantages of FAITH in the Church
  • The Believers are born again
  • The Believers are sons of God
  • The believers partake of the "divine life"
  • The believers will display Christ
  • The believers are heavenly in nature
  • The Believers will display "celestial glory" in resurrection
  • The Believers will rule the earth, sea and sky
  • The Believers are the House of God on earth
  • The Believers have the Holy Spirit dwelling IN them
  • The Believers have fulfilled God's original plan with men
  • The Believers will be famous
I believe that this is enough for now. God bless.

thank you
I believe you
I saw this resurrection at the edge of the miraculous
one Spirit one body one God (Abba)
I enjoy the meal
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#26
I think I know what you mean. If I am not mistaken you would have worded this;


The Bible does not mention a "Covenant of Christ". The Christian is told not to make promises (Matt.5:33-37).
Ah.......now I see...........you are promoting the Law, and the living thereunder, rather than Grace..........which surpassed Law, and is the foundation of the New Covenant........

Ok..........so, you are a Lawkeeper? Well, good luck with that come the day of Judgement

Galatians 3:17-18 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#28
How does a human break a covenant that he or she did not make?
the one that made a covenant was holy men of old as they were moved by the Holy Spirit
the only covenant that is may to men are those who are made by men this is a doctrine of damnation or a work grace gospel
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
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#29
The question is whether Jer. 32:40 is telling us that when the fear if the Lord is put in our hearts under the new covenant that we then can never turn away from the Lord or if we still have the choice of accepting Christ or not accepting Him. It seems to me finding the correct answer is very important and I don't understand how your response answers that.
You remain confused in spite of everything. The New Covenant applies to only those who actually obey the Gospel and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Not those who reject Him.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#30
the one that made a covenant was holy men of old as they were moved by the Holy Spirit the only covenant that is may to men are those who are made by men this is a doctrine of damnation or a work grace gospel
You too seem to be totally confused about this subject. So you have two choices: (1) approach this matter as a learner and ask appropriate questions or (2) imagine that you are teaching something, when in fact you do not know what you are talking about.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#31
there are statues and commandments that must not be broken with grace
There are no in-betweens with the law. If one who offends in one point is guilty of all the law, then also one who is dead to the law through Christ is dead to all the law, not dead to some pieces, but still alive to some other pieces (whichever pieces people cherry picked and decided to keep). The law that was established with the universe of course cannot be broken, that's why the Bible teaches that to become dead to the law and follow Him, and to stop trying to keep the law.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#33
So often I hear that the new covenant somehow meant we can ignore the law, it is cancelled.
You continue to insist that the Law of Moses remains in full force EVEN AFTER God has told you in His Word that that is not the case. Which means that you do not believe the Gospel.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
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#34
yes the only blood covenant that made was with a fault Christs. See 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 Ezek 23:36-44
As I said you are totally confused about this matter, and this remark proves it. So let's look at those passages and see what they say:

2 Corinthians 11:3-4: FALSE TEACHERS CORRUPT THE TRUE GOSPEL
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Ezek 23:36-44: SPIRITUAL ADULTERY IN ISRAEL (IDOLATRY)
36 The LORD said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
40 And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments,
41 And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.
42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful crowns upon their heads.
43 Then said I unto her that was old in adulteries, Will they now commit whoredoms with her, and she with them?
44 Yet they went in unto her, as they go in unto a woman that playeth the harlot: so went they in unto Aholah and unto Aholibah, the lewd women.

So what you are doing is picking random passages from Scripture which have no connection to the New Covenant, and trying to put a spin on them. Instead you should be trying to learn the truth about the New Covenant.
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#35
You too seem to be totally confused about this subject. So you have two choices: (1) approach this matter as a learner and ask appropriate questions or (2) imagine that you are teaching something, when in fact you do not know what you are talking about.
sorry not confusing but enlighten
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture
is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Isaiah 28:8-11 For all tables are full of vomit and filth; No place is clean.
"Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts?
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little."
For with stammering lips and another tongue, He will speak to this people,

Hebrews 5:12-14 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

brainstorm o_O
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#36
You continue to insist that the Law of Moses remains in full force EVEN AFTER God has told you in His Word that that is not the case. Which means that you do not believe the Gospel.
so I guess we can throw away the Ten Commandment the Law of Moses Deut 5: 6 - 17

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Brainstorm o_O
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#37
Have you even been weaned from milk? Or have you even experienced the New Birth? Again you have strung together random passages from the Bible which have no direct bearing on the New Covenant. Therefore I will not even bother to respond again. Seem like you are simply trolling.
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#38
Have you even been weaned from milk? Or have you even experienced the New Birth? Again you have strung together random passages from the Bible which have no direct bearing on the New Covenant. Therefore I will not even bother to respond again. Seem like you are simply trolling.
one must not give the fish, but to teach how to fish, random passages from the Bible?

John 5:38-41 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
I do not receive honor from men.

Acts 17:10-12 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.

Brainstorm o_O
 
Dec 29, 2019
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#39
one must not give the fish, but to teach how to fish, random passages from the Bible comparing scripture with scripture
As for milk gives strong Bones great for Calcium :cool:
Love is better :love: