Christ saves us from eternal death from sin, but do we still pay on the earth?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
We have examples in the OT of sinners who were forgiven, we know God saved their souls. But each time their sins brought on bad results. David and Bathsheba lost their baby. King Saul committed suicide. The Sinai covenant tells us that there are blessings from obedience and curses from sin. Yet we are forgiven through Christ.

If we commit a robbery, Christ will forgive us if we repent and take the sin to him, but we still must serve our jail sentence.
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#2
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
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#2
Blik said:
If we commit a robbery, Christ will forgive us if we repent and take the sin to him, but we still must serve our jail sentence
Click to expand...
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

What is written in scripture is for our learning; not to be used as an excuse to do what David (or any other person in scripture) did and think we will still be saved. There is a point where repentance becomes impossible for the believer; I would not be toying around with sin tempting the Lord (Hebrews 6:4-6).

Numbers 15:30-31 KJV
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord ; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [31] Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#3
Feb 15, 2014
3,801
946
113
62
#3
Blik said:
We have examples in the OT of sinners who were forgiven, we know God saved their souls. But each time their sins brought on bad results. David and Bathsheba lost their baby. King Saul committed suicide. The Sinai covenant tells us that there are blessings from obedience and curses from sin. Yet we are forgiven through Christ.

If we commit a robbery, Christ will forgive us if we repent and take the sin to him, but we still must serve our jail sentence.
Click to expand...
Thats correct. Why this should be changed?
We are in reponsibility to the earthly Leaders and the law which they give. Romans 13,1ff
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#4
Aug 28, 2012
19,703
2,818
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#4
Blik said:
We have examples in the OT of sinners who were forgiven, we know God saved their souls. But each time their sins brought on bad results. David and Bathsheba lost their baby. King Saul committed suicide. The Sinai covenant tells us that there are blessings from obedience and curses from sin. Yet we are forgiven through Christ.

If we commit a robbery, Christ will forgive us if we repent and take the sin to him, but we still must serve our jail sentence.
Click to expand...
Perhaps it can be likened to karma, people believe in karma and others just believe if you do something bad or something wrong it always comes to bite you in the butt.

If a child gets in trouble the mom or dad can forgive them but they still have to go to time out, life is a lesson of learning from our mistakes if we have no consaquences then we do not learn.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#5
Micaiah-imla said:
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

What is written in scripture is for our learning; not to be used as an excuse to do what David (or any other person in scripture) did and think we will still be saved. There is a point where repentance becomes impossible for the believer; I would not be toying around with sin tempting the Lord (Hebrews 6:4-6).

Numbers 15:30-31 KJV
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord ; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [31] Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Click to expand...
You are speaking of salvation of our souls, that is an entirely different discussion. This discussion is about what happens after sinning and we are saved, do we still have to reap what we have sown?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#6
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#6
Blain said:
Perhaps it can be likened to karma, people believe in karma and others just believe if you do something bad or something wrong it always comes to bite you in the butt.

If a child gets in trouble the mom or dad can forgive them but they still have to go to time out, life is a lesson of learning from our mistakes if we have no consaquences then we do not learn.
Click to expand...
I think you are so right. And if there are consequences for sin there are consequences for obedience. A thief might live in a mansion, a Christian in poverty but you can almost spot a life lived for Christ by the look of contentment on their faces.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#7
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#7
Micaiah-imla said:
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

What is written in scripture is for our learning; not to be used as an excuse to do what David (or any other person in scripture) did and think we will still be saved. There is a point where repentance becomes impossible for the believer; I would not be toying around with sin tempting the Lord (Hebrews 6:4-6).

Numbers 15:30-31 KJV
[30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord ; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [31] Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Click to expand...
The scriptures that you have quoted where the souls shall be cut off from among his people, does not have reference to being cut off and sent to hell. They will be cut off from fellowshipping among God's people, until they have repented, and regained their fellowship with their Lord and his people. Their inheritance of eternal life will not be cut off. All scriptures must harmonize in order for God's children to understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#8
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#8
wolfwint said:
Thats correct. Why this should be changed?
We are in reponsibility to the earthly Leaders and the law which they give. Romans 13,1ff
Click to expand...
I believe the scriptures teach that we should obey those men that have the rule over us, unless it goes against God's law. Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other Apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than man.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#9
Aug 28, 2012
19,703
2,818
113
#9
Blik said:
I think you are so right. And if there are consequences for sin there are consequences for obedience. A thief might live in a mansion, a Christian in poverty but you can almost spot a life lived for Christ by the look of contentment on their faces.
Click to expand...
A rich and evil king will always be wanting but a poor shepherd boy will always have content.
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#10
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#10
While there are certainly consequences to our actions we do not suffer directly the results of our sin. The book of Job is a contrast to the sowing and reaping implied by a Deuteronomistic theology demonstrating that sometimes we suffer for reasons that are inexplicable to us.

Ecclesiastes also highlights this "There is futility which is done on the earth, that is, there are righteous men to whom it happens according to the deeds of the wicked. On the other hand, there are evil men to whom it happens according to the deeds of the righteous. I say that this too is futility. "(Eccl. 8:14)

Altogether, there is a purpose for suffering but it is not always related to our own personal sin or righteousness.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#11
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#11
Bbrdrd said:
While there are certainly consequences to our actions we do not suffer directly the results of our sin. The book of Job is a contrast to the sowing and reaping implied by a Deuteronomistic theology demonstrating that sometimes we suffer for reasons that are inexplicable to us.

Ecclesiastes also highlights this "There is futility which is done on the earth, that is, there are righteous men to whom it happens according to the deeds of the wicked. On the other hand, there are evil men to whom it happens according to the deeds of the righteous. I say that this too is futility. "(Eccl. 8:14)

Altogether, there is a purpose for suffering but it is not always related to our own personal sin or righteousness.
Click to expand...
Good point. Is it in scripture that we learn that the rain falls on all men or is it just a saying? Lot was saved from the fate of those in Sodom because he left the city. If he had stayed he would have suffered the same fate as all the rest in the city.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
That depends on what God is doing, sometimes he allows us to suffer the natural consequences, and some times he diverts those consequences. I always pray his mercy both here and the kingdom to come.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#13
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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#13
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Revelation 2:23 ...and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
 
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