How does Jesus' suffering on the cross compare to an eternity in Hell?

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Apr 14, 2020
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#81
Sure. Jesus wasnt guilty of anything, but was condemned anyway. Being completely innocent, he is the greatest example of unjust suffering.

As far as "eternal" torment, the suffering is in regard to being tormented by having all of pnes sins exposed, which were committed ("forever", meaning the sum of) in this life. In other words, "forever " doesnt always mean never ending (like God is eternal). It can easily mean the entire life of someone, from birth to death, like this,

he shall be his slave forever. Exo.21:6
He wasn't innocent. He broke the law.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#86
In case you are interested, here's what the Roman Governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate (the man the Jews handed Jesus over to, to be judged and condemned) had to say about the Lord's guilt or innocence.

John 18
28 They led Jesus from Caiaphas into the Praetorium, and it was early; and they themselves did not enter into the Praetorium so that they would not be defiled, but might eat the Passover.
29 Therefore Pilate went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?”
30 They answered and said to him, “If this Man were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him to you.”
31 So Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves, and judge Him according to your law.” The Jews said to him, “We are not permitted to put anyone to death,”
32 to fulfill the word of Jesus which He spoke, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die.
33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?”
35 Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?”
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
38 Pilate *said to Him, “What is truth?”
And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, “I find no guilt in Him."
39 “But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?”
40 So they cried out again, saying, “Not this Man, but Barabbas.” Now Barabbas was a robber.
John 19
1 Pilate then took Jesus and scourged Him.
2 And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and put a purple robe on Him;
3 and they began to come up to Him and say, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and to give Him slaps in the face.
4 Pilate came out again and said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you so that you may know that I find no guilt in Him.”
5 Jesus then came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, “Behold, the Man!”
6 So when the chief priests and the officers saw Him, they cried out saying, “Crucify, crucify!” Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves and crucify Him, for I find no guilt in Him.”
7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God.”
 
Jun 6, 2020
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#87
He suffered so that we MAY live.
He is the suffering servant Isaiah prophesied (Isaiah 53).

But does his suffering compare to that of the majority of humans who are destined for eternal torture?
I don’t think scripture supports the concept of eternal torture. My understanding is that the wicked will be annihilated in the lake of fire.

Eternal torture is incompatible with the character of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus.
 

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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#88
Sedition. The same crime as those he was crucified with.
Actually, the men who were crucified with Him were thieves.

Matthew 27
38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left.

~Deut
 
Apr 14, 2020
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#89
Actually, the men who were crucified with Him were thieves.

Matthew 27
38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left.

~Deut
Really? That's what it says in Koine Greek?
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#90
I've asked you to explain. Cure me of my ignorance.
I gave you the answer and told you what to do for your 'cure'. You refused that cure, as surely as the smoker who refuses to quit chooses not to acknowledge the physicians advice to let go of the habit, through a program. You clearly stated, "I'm not learning Hebrew." Remain in your chosen ignorance then. You refused the only answer, as demonstrated in my post before, which clearly showed Jesus in the OT, but this was your choice to not see. Your blindness is not a matter that I can 'cure'. The matter is in your own hands. When you decide you want to see, you will, but there is a time limit to your opportunity.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#91
Really? That's what it says in Koine Greek?
Yes.

λῃστής [transliterated as lestes] is translated as “thief” 11 times, and “robber” 4 times in the King James. λῃστής means (& has also been translated in other Greek literature as ) a robber, plunderer, freebooter or brigand.​

~Deut
 
Apr 14, 2020
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#92
I gave you the answer and told you what to do for your 'cure'. You refused that cure, as surely as the smoker who refuses to quit chooses not to acknowledge the physicians advice to let go of the habit, through a program. You clearly stated, "I'm not learning Hebrew." Remain in your chosen ignorance then. You refused the only answer, as demonstrated in my post before, which clearly showed Jesus in the OT, but this was your choice to not see. Your blindness is not a matter that I can 'cure'. The matter is in your own hands. When you decide you want to see, you will, but there is a time limit to your opportunity.
Yeah...learning Hebrew is a big expectation to have of someone
 
Apr 14, 2020
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#93
Yes.

λῃστής [transliterated as lestes] is translated as as “thief” 11 times, and “robber” four times in the King James. λῃστής means/has also been translated (in other Greek literature) as .. a robber, plunderer, freebooter, brigand.​

~Deut
It refers to 'bandits' a generic term for insurrectionists. They were crucified to serve as an example. Jesus was considered as much 'lestai' as they were.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#94
Really? That's what it says in Koine Greek?
You pretend to read and understand koine Greek?

The word "koine" is not capitalized. It simply means "common". The word "Greek" is capitalized, as it is referring to an actual language.

Read this please:

koine Greek.jpg

Why would you ask for someone for the explanation of the koine Greek, and merely take their word for it? I gave to you, likewise, the understanding of the Hebrew text, and you refused the explanation of it, not only by myself, but also by John the Apostle (an actual Jew, speaking/reading Hebrew) in John 1, etc.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#95
wow,
it would seem as though you have a mind that identifies with the 'lost's interpretation...
Jesus Christ was NEVER put into the category of what you are insinuating...
check yourself and your motive, if you can...
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#96
Yeah...learning Hebrew is a big expectation to have of someone
Not at all. The explanation was on the very screen before you. In both Hebew and transliterated Hebrew. It is simply a matter of reading the letters before you, to understand that "Jesus" is clearly spelled out in the OT text. I refer you back to the post:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-eternity-in-hell.193882/page-4#post-4333281

Again:

Hb: "את־ישׁועת יהוה "
TR. Hb.: "et-y'shûat y'hwäh "

Here is an image for you for easy decoding, letter by letter, in case you still cannot read "Jesus".

AWHN - Picto-Hebrew.png

Your issue is not that you do not know, or understand "Hebrew". It is that you do not want to know the truth, as clearly shown to you. Thus the scripture declares your actual condition. Willfully ignorant.
 
Apr 14, 2020
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#97
wow,
it would seem as though you have a mind that identifies with the 'lost's interpretation...
Jesus Christ was NEVER put into the category of what you are insinuating...
check yourself and your motive, if you can...
Jesus was a criminal. He was arrested, tried, punished.
 
Apr 14, 2020
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#98
Not at all. The explanation was on the very screen before you. In both Hebew and transliterated Hebrew. It is simply a matter of reading the letters before you, to understand that "Jesus" is clearly spelled out in the OT text. I refer you back to the post:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...n-eternity-in-hell.193882/page-4#post-4333281

Again:

Hb: "את־ישׁועת יהוה "
TR. Hb.: "et-y'shûat y'hwäh "

Here is an image for you for easy decoding, letter by letter, in case you still cannot read "Jesus".

View attachment 219511

Your issue is not that you do not know, or understand "Hebrew". It is that you do not want to know the truth, as clearly shown to you. Thus the scripture declares your actual condition. Willfully ignorant.
Yeshua was an incredibly common name.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#99
Yeshua was an incredibly common name.
So, you do admit that "Yeshua" is in the OT then? That is a backtracking of your original response. So, half-way to the truth, but never committed to all of it, is such a mindset.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus was a criminal. He was arrested, tried, punished.
Jesus was sinless. If you cannot grasp that, you fail horribly at understanding anything about Christianity:geek:

Even a cursory reading of the crucifixion events shows that a known criminal was set free instead.