How do I respond to my skeptic daughter?
- Thread starter Heal103
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Much of worldly christianity is false. Most people judge christianity by this false christianity. they judge it but those who have twisted it, and corrupted it.
They are not expose
Perhaps what your daughter is judging, and rightfully so, is false Christianity. But a common hurdle remains. Like many others, she believes that the false Christianity is the true Christianity.
You can't "deconvert" those who have been Born Again in Christ Jesus. What Atheism, agnosticism, or relativism succeed in doing is deconverting the younger generations from false christianity.
This competition then helps to drive the evolution and progressive changes that are happening in false Christianity..
Best to assume your daughter is not a born again believer.
Bible + nothing = everything.
Entire Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ.
No one can come to the Father but through Christ Jesus, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
They are not expose
Perhaps what your daughter is judging, and rightfully so, is false Christianity. But a common hurdle remains. Like many others, she believes that the false Christianity is the true Christianity.
You can't "deconvert" those who have been Born Again in Christ Jesus. What Atheism, agnosticism, or relativism succeed in doing is deconverting the younger generations from false christianity.
This competition then helps to drive the evolution and progressive changes that are happening in false Christianity..
Best to assume your daughter is not a born again believer.
Bible + nothing = everything.
Entire Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ.
No one can come to the Father but through Christ Jesus, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
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I would think you need to go back to the basics of salvation again with your daughter. If shes really grounded in faith all this stuff shes exposed to she would be able to clearly see and discern is noise.
The problem with certain youth group leaders is they start thinking they can blanketly judge people before they die. But we know its God who judges and only He has the right to condemn anyone...
Jesus says the prostitutes and the tax collectors are actually entering heaven before you (the Pharisees) but the Pharisees are like no we are the only ones deserving of heaven. I found that many pseudochristians believe in this error, that they have faith in THEMSELVES instead of faith toward God to redeem anyone.
The problem with certain youth group leaders is they start thinking they can blanketly judge people before they die. But we know its God who judges and only He has the right to condemn anyone...
Jesus says the prostitutes and the tax collectors are actually entering heaven before you (the Pharisees) but the Pharisees are like no we are the only ones deserving of heaven. I found that many pseudochristians believe in this error, that they have faith in THEMSELVES instead of faith toward God to redeem anyone.
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I would respond in a few ways.
1. A lot of Christians are out of touch with basic science. ( but honestly so are atheists). I am a Christian and I believe 100% in the word of God. I also don’t believe parts of it are meant to be taken literally. Such as genesis 1-11. Not literal in the sense Modern peoole take it to mean anyways. So that easily opens up the door for me to have no issue with what science clearly teaches. A old earth and evolution. She may find answers with communities like BioLogos. The battle is not science and faith. The battle is science vs 1 interpretation of scripture. There are others where that battle does not exist.
2. There seems to be a extra focus on homosexuality. As a Christian I agree that homosexuality is a sin. As someone who is really into science I see no evidence to interpret the data as saying it’s strictly caused by nature when in reality it seems mostly dominated by nurture.
But again I see the church often overly focused on it. They often fail to forget we all fall short. Someone will overlook their porn addiction to accuse two gay man. Or there is less focus on sex outside of marriage being just as sinful as any other form of sexual immortality and that Includes same sex. I also mention that even heterosexuals face changes. We can’t just marry whoever we want. There are stipulations liked out about marriage and divorce. A man , I believe John Hammond, talks a lot of about it.
3. Republicans are not Jesus’s party. Jesus people are Christians and that’s from real public and democrat camps. Both parties fail to do God justice. Look at the life of Jesus and see who he is.
I’ll respond better in the morning it’s almost midnight and I’m tired.
1. A lot of Christians are out of touch with basic science. ( but honestly so are atheists). I am a Christian and I believe 100% in the word of God. I also don’t believe parts of it are meant to be taken literally. Such as genesis 1-11. Not literal in the sense Modern peoole take it to mean anyways. So that easily opens up the door for me to have no issue with what science clearly teaches. A old earth and evolution. She may find answers with communities like BioLogos. The battle is not science and faith. The battle is science vs 1 interpretation of scripture. There are others where that battle does not exist.
2. There seems to be a extra focus on homosexuality. As a Christian I agree that homosexuality is a sin. As someone who is really into science I see no evidence to interpret the data as saying it’s strictly caused by nature when in reality it seems mostly dominated by nurture.
But again I see the church often overly focused on it. They often fail to forget we all fall short. Someone will overlook their porn addiction to accuse two gay man. Or there is less focus on sex outside of marriage being just as sinful as any other form of sexual immortality and that Includes same sex. I also mention that even heterosexuals face changes. We can’t just marry whoever we want. There are stipulations liked out about marriage and divorce. A man , I believe John Hammond, talks a lot of about it.
3. Republicans are not Jesus’s party. Jesus people are Christians and that’s from real public and democrat camps. Both parties fail to do God justice. Look at the life of Jesus and see who he is.
I’ll respond better in the morning it’s almost midnight and I’m tired.
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F
Well to start we can educate our kids the correct doctrine and the correct history.
Being a student once myself I got out of school conditioned to feel sorry for the crusades and slavery. As kids we are much more influenceable. Youngsters often take specific narratives the way they come without questioning them and digging up the truths of it.
Not one crime, not one, can be justified through the christian lifestyle. Churches could punish a lot of people because most people did not know how to read. Yet it was genuine christians that thought it was important that people learned how to read. That they could behold the gospel with their own eyes. With Greece philosophy and christianity a great educational system was built in the west. Nobelprice winners were once scientists which were schooled in christian schools. Great medical breakthroughs are attained through christian scientific facilities. Now most winners are political influenced. Throwing the child out with bathwater wasn’t a good thing neither.
Even the crusades were not out of the blue, but were a reply to the muslim invasion of Jerusalem. It later was needed to defend Europe from other invasions and also the regain Spain from islamic invasion.
When we put all weight in the scale, we see we have a bad history. But the good always prevails when the majority starts speaking and acting up. Once people got to know what the Bible was really saying we had wonderful family traditions and values. We demolished slavery and gave everyone equal rights. The west was going up and not going down. Until some dictators enters the scene....
There are always a few stirring up the masses to achieve their goals. They used to abuse religion for this, now the mass is too educated. Now they need to fool the people through politics and media outlets.
I really see people being dumbed down and not being educated anymore. It is in our educational system and we need to watch this above draconian measures and engage this through His spirit in His strenght.
Being a student once myself I got out of school conditioned to feel sorry for the crusades and slavery. As kids we are much more influenceable. Youngsters often take specific narratives the way they come without questioning them and digging up the truths of it.
Not one crime, not one, can be justified through the christian lifestyle. Churches could punish a lot of people because most people did not know how to read. Yet it was genuine christians that thought it was important that people learned how to read. That they could behold the gospel with their own eyes. With Greece philosophy and christianity a great educational system was built in the west. Nobelprice winners were once scientists which were schooled in christian schools. Great medical breakthroughs are attained through christian scientific facilities. Now most winners are political influenced. Throwing the child out with bathwater wasn’t a good thing neither.
Even the crusades were not out of the blue, but were a reply to the muslim invasion of Jerusalem. It later was needed to defend Europe from other invasions and also the regain Spain from islamic invasion.
When we put all weight in the scale, we see we have a bad history. But the good always prevails when the majority starts speaking and acting up. Once people got to know what the Bible was really saying we had wonderful family traditions and values. We demolished slavery and gave everyone equal rights. The west was going up and not going down. Until some dictators enters the scene....
There are always a few stirring up the masses to achieve their goals. They used to abuse religion for this, now the mass is too educated. Now they need to fool the people through politics and media outlets.
I really see people being dumbed down and not being educated anymore. It is in our educational system and we need to watch this above draconian measures and engage this through His spirit in His strenght.
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You can try to explain prophecies to her, historical accuracy, testimonies, how faith in a resurrected Messiah is divine, and other things to help her.
It is possible that there isn't anything you can say to simply win her back over if she is already aware of such truths and has chosen to walk the way of the world. It will take a personal choice for her to realize it's time to come back home.
The tale of the prodigal son, or prodigal daughter in this case, is a real thing. It implies that someone who was once in good graces with the Father, ran away and squandered their inheritance, then came back and repented to receive a warm welcome. This could be your daughter one day. This is the story of many people.
Pray and have faith.
It is possible that there isn't anything you can say to simply win her back over if she is already aware of such truths and has chosen to walk the way of the world. It will take a personal choice for her to realize it's time to come back home.
The tale of the prodigal son, or prodigal daughter in this case, is a real thing. It implies that someone who was once in good graces with the Father, ran away and squandered their inheritance, then came back and repented to receive a warm welcome. This could be your daughter one day. This is the story of many people.
Pray and have faith.
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Jesus is something special, he is good enough to make all things right. He is better than the world, so she may well come back to him, if it's on her terms let it slide, she has recognised what is good about him that is in no-one else, and make her think twice
The spiritual goodness of Jesus is ever present
The spiritual goodness of Jesus is ever present
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Well to start we can educate our kids the correct doctrine and the correct history.
Being a student once myself I got out of school conditioned to feel sorry for the crusades and slavery. As kids we are much more influenceable. Youngsters often take specific narratives the way they come without questioning them and digging up the truths of it.
Not one crime, not one, can be justified through the christian lifestyle. Churches could punish a lot of people because most people did not know how to read. Yet it was genuine christians that thought it was important that people learned how to read. That they could behold the gospel with their own eyes. With Greece philosophy and christianity a great educational system was built in the west. Nobelprice winners were once scientists which were schooled in christian schools. Great medical breakthroughs are attained through christian scientific facilities. Now most winners are political influenced. Throwing the child out with bathwater wasn’t a good thing neither.
Even the crusades were not out of the blue, but were a reply to the muslim invasion of Jerusalem. It later was needed to defend Europe from other invasions and also the regain Spain from islamic invasion.
When we put all weight in the scale, we see we have a bad history. But the good always prevails when the majority starts speaking and acting up. Once people got to know what the Bible was really saying we had wonderful family traditions and values. We demolished slavery and gave everyone equal rights. The west was going up and not going down. Until some dictators enters the scene....
There are always a few stirring up the masses to achieve their goals. They used to abuse religion for this, now the mass is too educated. Now they need to fool the people through politics and media outlets.
I really see people being dumbed down and not being educated anymore. It is in our educational system and we need to watch this above draconian measures and engage this through His spirit in His strenght.
Being a student once myself I got out of school conditioned to feel sorry for the crusades and slavery. As kids we are much more influenceable. Youngsters often take specific narratives the way they come without questioning them and digging up the truths of it.
Not one crime, not one, can be justified through the christian lifestyle. Churches could punish a lot of people because most people did not know how to read. Yet it was genuine christians that thought it was important that people learned how to read. That they could behold the gospel with their own eyes. With Greece philosophy and christianity a great educational system was built in the west. Nobelprice winners were once scientists which were schooled in christian schools. Great medical breakthroughs are attained through christian scientific facilities. Now most winners are political influenced. Throwing the child out with bathwater wasn’t a good thing neither.
Even the crusades were not out of the blue, but were a reply to the muslim invasion of Jerusalem. It later was needed to defend Europe from other invasions and also the regain Spain from islamic invasion.
When we put all weight in the scale, we see we have a bad history. But the good always prevails when the majority starts speaking and acting up. Once people got to know what the Bible was really saying we had wonderful family traditions and values. We demolished slavery and gave everyone equal rights. The west was going up and not going down. Until some dictators enters the scene....
There are always a few stirring up the masses to achieve their goals. They used to abuse religion for this, now the mass is too educated. Now they need to fool the people through politics and media outlets.
I really see people being dumbed down and not being educated anymore. It is in our educational system and we need to watch this above draconian measures and engage this through His spirit in His strenght.
During the Crusades, traditional Catholic hostility toward Jews became radicalized, with the Jews coming more and more to represent an alien enemy residing in the heart of Christendom.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230611177_6
In general, the Church found Muslim control of Christian holy places in Eretz Israel intolerable, especially when reports came from Jerusalem of harassment of Christians visiting the holy sites. As such, in 1095 Pope Urban II called for an army of Christians to conquer Eretz Israel from its Muslim rulers. Indeed, that Christians viewed Islam as a threat was hardly new. In the Eighth Century, for example, Muslims captured Spain and made inroads into France, before being defeated by Charles Martel's Frankish army.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2617029/jewish/The-Bloody-Crusades.htm
F
But it was more then that. Back then everyone was in eachothers face and superior to one and another. They were in constant compition of their gods. Christians, jews and muslims. Then some kings or emperors get it high in their head and go to war. Bad things happen on each side.
Yet the west fixates on the bad from one side only and keeps silent that the crusades were launched as reply to islamic invasions. That does not sound political correct to the brutes taking society in hostage. Let us create a stockholmsyndrom and indoctrinate our kids that only our poo stinks and we should never mention other poo. because mentioning that of others would show the picture of today. changing today would be too much an effort and offend the brutes. So let’s get lazy and mention our own past while others get eager to rob the land from beneath our feet....
Nothing from that day was of true christianity. As I was saying hierarchies were abusing people could not read. Religion was politics of that day. The Vatican is up till this day not christian. But that does not mean we should demonize our past by painting it black and white. The first crusade had good purpose and many others after that even so. If we had no crusades there would be no Europe or America. It would all be islamic.
Yet the west fixates on the bad from one side only and keeps silent that the crusades were launched as reply to islamic invasions. That does not sound political correct to the brutes taking society in hostage. Let us create a stockholmsyndrom and indoctrinate our kids that only our poo stinks and we should never mention other poo. because mentioning that of others would show the picture of today. changing today would be too much an effort and offend the brutes. So let’s get lazy and mention our own past while others get eager to rob the land from beneath our feet....
Nothing from that day was of true christianity. As I was saying hierarchies were abusing people could not read. Religion was politics of that day. The Vatican is up till this day not christian. But that does not mean we should demonize our past by painting it black and white. The first crusade had good purpose and many others after that even so. If we had no crusades there would be no Europe or America. It would all be islamic.
You’re welcome. For me realizing that was one of the best lessons I learned through prayer and studying out real science.
when a younger person is false right that to be Christians means you must reject science and believe in a 10k year old earth and so on it can be confusing. Especially as they grow up and go through college where they meet the facts in better light. People few like they have to choose their faith over evolution for example when in reality plenty merge the two seamlessly.
Or when they we’re taught to be a Christian means accepting and enforcing a republicanized theocracy. When you can be a Democrat or socialist and share the faith.
I do hope she can get the help she needs.
when a younger person is false right that to be Christians means you must reject science and believe in a 10k year old earth and so on it can be confusing. Especially as they grow up and go through college where they meet the facts in better light. People few like they have to choose their faith over evolution for example when in reality plenty merge the two seamlessly.
Or when they we’re taught to be a Christian means accepting and enforcing a republicanized theocracy. When you can be a Democrat or socialist and share the faith.
I do hope she can get the help she needs.
Dear Heal103, you have received many great replies and here's my 2 cents . Btw Merry/Happy Christmas to you and all!
First let me say that it is ultimately by faith that we can know the absolute Truth , which is God,the Lord Jesus. However even Jesus said that we can believe in him by the evidence of his works /miracles in John 14:11 in the New Testament.( I am just mentioning that the Gospel John is in the NT for non Chrstians peeking in from the web.)
One of Christ's great works is the universe itself, including DNA , the code of life.
The born-again Christian and eminent geneticist, physician and chemist, Francis Collins wrote a best-seller called " The Language of God: A scientist Presents Evidence for Belief". Collins is a true genius, having won the prestigious US National Medal of Science and has made many discoveries in his field. I think your daughter might enjoy this book. Francis Collins tells us in this book why he converted to evangelical Christianity from atheism.
I have to also tell you that even though Francis Collins believes the Lord Jesus is the Creator of the universe, Collin's belief is that Christ made humans through the process of theistic evolution, which he calls BioLogos. He does not believe in Intelligent Design. (Many scientists, however do believe in Intelligent Design.) Many born-again Christians do not believe in BioLogos, but some do, including many Christian scientists.
I think you can be a supporter Creationism or Intelligent Design or BioLogos(theistic evolution) and still be as ApostlePaul says "
a citizen of heaven"- as long as you believe that Christ is Almighty God.( No one but the Almighty- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit- can exactly know how they created the universe, life and humanity, No one - no matter how scientifically intelligent they are.)
First let me say that it is ultimately by faith that we can know the absolute Truth , which is God,the Lord Jesus. However even Jesus said that we can believe in him by the evidence of his works /miracles in John 14:11 in the New Testament.( I am just mentioning that the Gospel John is in the NT for non Chrstians peeking in from the web.)
One of Christ's great works is the universe itself, including DNA , the code of life.
The born-again Christian and eminent geneticist, physician and chemist, Francis Collins wrote a best-seller called " The Language of God: A scientist Presents Evidence for Belief". Collins is a true genius, having won the prestigious US National Medal of Science and has made many discoveries in his field. I think your daughter might enjoy this book. Francis Collins tells us in this book why he converted to evangelical Christianity from atheism.
I have to also tell you that even though Francis Collins believes the Lord Jesus is the Creator of the universe, Collin's belief is that Christ made humans through the process of theistic evolution, which he calls BioLogos. He does not believe in Intelligent Design. (Many scientists, however do believe in Intelligent Design.) Many born-again Christians do not believe in BioLogos, but some do, including many Christian scientists.
I think you can be a supporter Creationism or Intelligent Design or BioLogos(theistic evolution) and still be as ApostlePaul says "
a citizen of heaven"- as long as you believe that Christ is Almighty God.( No one but the Almighty- the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit- can exactly know how they created the universe, life and humanity, No one - no matter how scientifically intelligent they are.)
You can take everything in your life that concerns you to God. "Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. "
Jesus and his gospel continue to stand sure. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his "
I learned a long while back that looking at humans is not the answer as they claim all kinds of things and do all kinds of things. Looking to God is the way. Perhaps you could show your daughter this verse:"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. " (Psalm 118:8) Also, there are lots of verses about how deceived or wicked people can be. If you are loving and caring to your daughter and give this issue to God, who knows if God might respond and give life and love to your daughter and assurance of his salvation.
Jesus and his gospel continue to stand sure. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his "
I learned a long while back that looking at humans is not the answer as they claim all kinds of things and do all kinds of things. Looking to God is the way. Perhaps you could show your daughter this verse:"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. " (Psalm 118:8) Also, there are lots of verses about how deceived or wicked people can be. If you are loving and caring to your daughter and give this issue to God, who knows if God might respond and give life and love to your daughter and assurance of his salvation.
Dear Heal103: your daughters has the right (in this life)to have her concerns about Christianity but she or anyone else might not get all the answers to their satisfaction. We are not omniscient so faith will always be required.
You said that your daughter is "diving into science" and so in my first reply to you (post #57) I gave you the name of a best-selling book by the eminent American scientist Francis Collins on the scientific evidence for Christianity,
However it was proven, last century ,by one of the greatest mathematicians and greatest logicians in history, Kurt Gödel , that mathematics , the language of science, is not consistent. Gödel's proof is called the Incompleteness Theorems.(Christian answers website for children was talking about Gödel's theorems some years ago ,so this incredible discovery's general idea is accessible to the non-expert.)
So the scientific method cannot ever understand physical reality ( the universe-[just explaining for youth from the corners of the world peeking into here].)
One atheist scientist , upon hearing of Gödel's landmark discovery, killed himself. (I am not happy this happened- I have an atheist friend. I am just trying to clearly stress the absolute destruction of the idea that science can, or someday will, explain -or even understand -everything.)
I really like science and devout Christians should be the best in every scientific field like we had always been (in some, we devout Christians still are). But I know there is a definite, proven uncertainty inherent in all of science and so science cannot explain the natural world ever.
Jesus is the only Truth ; we can be certain of this through just faith or combining faith and evidence as Jesus said we can in John 10 and John 11 . The book by the National Medal of Science winner, Francis Collins, will still be very helpful to many who need a logical basis for Christianity.
Merry/Happy Christmas Heal103 and all you sweet children of Christ Jesus of all nations!
You said that your daughter is "diving into science" and so in my first reply to you (post #57) I gave you the name of a best-selling book by the eminent American scientist Francis Collins on the scientific evidence for Christianity,
However it was proven, last century ,by one of the greatest mathematicians and greatest logicians in history, Kurt Gödel , that mathematics , the language of science, is not consistent. Gödel's proof is called the Incompleteness Theorems.(Christian answers website for children was talking about Gödel's theorems some years ago ,so this incredible discovery's general idea is accessible to the non-expert.)
So the scientific method cannot ever understand physical reality ( the universe-[just explaining for youth from the corners of the world peeking into here].)
One atheist scientist , upon hearing of Gödel's landmark discovery, killed himself. (I am not happy this happened- I have an atheist friend. I am just trying to clearly stress the absolute destruction of the idea that science can, or someday will, explain -or even understand -everything.)
I really like science and devout Christians should be the best in every scientific field like we had always been (in some, we devout Christians still are). But I know there is a definite, proven uncertainty inherent in all of science and so science cannot explain the natural world ever.
Jesus is the only Truth ; we can be certain of this through just faith or combining faith and evidence as Jesus said we can in John 10 and John 11 . The book by the National Medal of Science winner, Francis Collins, will still be very helpful to many who need a logical basis for Christianity.
Merry/Happy Christmas Heal103 and all you sweet children of Christ Jesus of all nations!