What works will be accepted at the "Judgement Seat Of Christ?" Why was the unprofitable servant cast into the outer darkness (Matthew 25: 14-30)?

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MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#61
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
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#61
Praise God, the Rapture will bring the completed manifestation of Christ’s Finished Work for us at Calvary! For the Believer, the Rapture is Independence Day! Once and for all, we will be totally and completely freed from our corrupted nature, freed from all effects of sin! Glory to God! Let’s take a closer look at the events taking place in Heaven (which parallel the events of the Tribulation on Earth). All Believers must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ according to II Corinthians 5:10. Remember this is not for the purpose of dealing with sin, however, a careful ledger has been kept of every work the Believer has performed since he became a Christian (Mat. 12:36; Rom. 14:12; II Cor. 5:10).

Believers will be judged on the basis of:

1. Doctrinal Beliefs – true or false (Rom. 2:14-16; 14:1-10).
2. Conduct toward others – kind or unkind (Mat. 18:10; Mk. 9:41; II Tim. 4:14).
3. Stewardship – faithful or unfaithful (Mat. 25:14-29; Lk. 12:42-44; I Cor. 4:1-5).
4. Words – good or bad (Mat. 12:36-37; Eph. 4:29).
5. Talents – used or wasted (Mat. 5:15-16; Mk. 4:25).
6. Attitudes – Christlike or selfish (Mat. 6:1-7; Eph. 4:30-32).
7. Motives – right or wrong (Mat. 6:16-18; Lk. 14:12-14).
8. Traits – Spiritual or carnal (Rom. 2:1-6; Col. 3:8-16).
9. Every Deed – worthy or worthless (Mk. 9:41; Col. 3:23-25).

The deeds performed in a worthy manner will be rewarded, but those deeds Christ judges unworthy will be burned and will cause the Believer lost rewards (I Cor. 3:12-15).

The following rewards have been promised for faithful service to the Lord:

1. Victor’s Crown (I Cor. 9:25).
2. Crown of Righteousness (II Tim. 4:8).
3. Crown of Rejoicing (I Thess. 2:19).
4. Crown of Life (James 1:12).
5. Crown of Glory (I Pet. 5:4).
6. Martyr’s Crown (Rev. 2:10).
7. Crown of Gold (Rev. 4:4).

And because Scripture clearly indicates that it is possible for someone else to take our crown (Rev. 3:11), it behooves every Christian to be diligent in his service to the King of kings! Believers will also be given a mansion in which to live eternally (Jn. 14:2), and Christ will determine the amount of earthly rulership to give each Saint based on his faithfulness to God in this present life (Lk. 19:12-26). Believers will reign as kings and priests with Christ forever (Rev. 1:6; 5:10). Following the Judgment Seat of Christ will be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This speaks of the Bride of Christ, all the redeemed from every Dispensation who will live in the New Jerusalem. “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His Wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the Righteousness of Saints. And he said unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true sayings of God” (Rev. 19:7-9). What a time of reunion, celebration, and worship Believers have in store! Are you ready? Are you in a committed, Covenant relationship with Christ? Are you a Bride adorned for her Husband? Is your heart singing, “. . . when I hear that last trumpet sound, my feet won’t stay on the ground”? If your answers are “yes,” then, as my husband often says, “Well, Glory!”

JSM
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#62
Sep 2, 2020
12,234
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#62
MessageOfTheCross said:
The question I asked Pastor Curtis:

Bible study question? If the Believer is frustrating grace by their Faith being misplaced; by not placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified - will grace continue to much more abound over sin in the life of a Believer?

Pastor Curtis answer:

No sir I do not believe that it will according to Gal 1:6, 5:1-4, and other scriptures. The word “frustrate” means to deny or to set aside. Grace only takes place “through faith”. Grace is God doing something in, for, to, or through someone through their faith. Hope this helps.

To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
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Scribe said:
Preaching and teaching about Jesus Christ. He is the foundation and when we minister we should be glorifying Christ and making Him known. So in 1 Cor 3 he said some were following Apollos, others Paul, others Peter, and some even saying (like many of us might say in a self righteous way) "I follow Christ so I am better than all y'all heretics",

They had the wrong idea. They were suggesting that Apollos, Paul, Peter and Jesus all taught something contrary and they did not.

Then he explains the foundational teaching is Jesus and we must be careful how we build on that. Some will spend their ministry focusing on something like the proper formula used in baptism and make that the main point of all their sermons and when the stand before the judgement seat of Christ it will be burned up, wood, hay and stubble because they were not building on the right foundation a revelation of Jesus Christ.

There will be those who focus on arguing over many things that are they will get no reward for, because God never called them to preach that, they got sidetracked from preaching Jesus Christ, and him crucified. That does not mean that we teach on other topics in the bible but we must always be building on the foundation of Jesus Christ and how His Life transforms us into his image.

Paul was saying Apollos, Peter, Paul, did not teach different messages and they were in error for pitting on against another. These ministers had to make sure that they did not build with wood, hay and stubble. Preaching Jesus Christ and him crucified does not mean we can't preach about other things like the blamelessness and qualifications of an elder, or the gifts of the Holy Spirit, or any number of other things that Paul preached on who is the one who said "I determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him Crucified."
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when I hear the phrase Jesus Christ and him crucified I’m sort of thinking most of the Bible is about Jesus and also him crucified and risen and glorified .





Paul and the apostles taught such deep deep things beyond Jesus being resurrected his theme in his teaching is always “ you are not the same as you were before you met Jesus “

you are not who you were “ put on the new man created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness .....
Ahwatukee said:
Hello again, Pilgrimshope!

Thank you for saying for saying so and thank God that you are eager for the truth. First of all, all of the information that I have been posting is based on scripture, which is why I provide it to support what I am saying. This information comes from many years of personal study in God's word.

You are 2/3's correct in that humans are made up of body, soul and spirit, as the following scripture demonstrates:

"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

The soul and spirit make up the inner man, contained within the body. When the believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs to be in the presence of the Lord (2 Cor.5:6-8, Phil.1:21-24). The body is buried and decays. At the resurrection, Jesus will bring with Him all of those spirits/souls who have died in Him and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies, immortal and glorified.



.

Thanks be to God that you are being like the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was telling them was correct. Happy hunting!
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I’m glad you prayerfully study also always good to hear different takes and ideas to consider . Yea it seems some people have different takes on scripture is the thing . I agree with much of what your saying especially how you understand where our spirit goes in Christ .

let me try to show you my take on a few things

here’s what I mean about man is two parts look at creation

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

became a living soul you my dear brother are 1 living soul. You consist of a body of flesh and a spirit of life within.

see man has a body and the spirit of life from God those two elements make 1 living soul.

the two elements of man

“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This continues through the Bible it is the duality of man the conflict within good v evil. Spirit v flesh .

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63

from beginning to end it is flesh and spirit struggling for the soul of mankind . The Bible has much to say of this struggle.

there is a physical aspect of man and an inner aspect the spiritual living aspect.


There is a physical death for our flesh the first death, and there is a spiritual death for our spirit the second death.

that’s the two deaths pretty clearly so it makes sense there is a resurrection of the spirit after the first death and then a resurrection of the body in the end avoiding the second death. Which to me makes good sense given the totality of scripture

but again I can tell you have studied this a lot and I do find a lot of agreement in your comment

there are two births one of the condemned flesh into this world and then one of the spirit into the kingdom .

The flesh is condemned

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to enter the kingdom we have to be born of the spirit in this life and receive our new bodies later Still always remaining two aspects spirit and body .

See there are two worlds promised, two covenants , two births , Two deaths , two resurrections because everything is about the two aspects of man the material and physical and the spiritual the great conflict Adams dominion failed and cursed this world , Christ’s dominion is now in heaven and like your saying he’s gonna come back and deal with it all
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#63
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#63
Pilgrimshope said:
when I hear the phrase Jesus Christ and him crucified I’m sort of thinking most of the Bible is about Jesus and also him crucified and risen and glorified .





Paul and the apostles taught such deep deep things beyond Jesus being resurrected his theme in his teaching is always “ you are not the same as you were before you met Jesus “

you are not who you were “ put on the new man created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness .....


I’m glad you prayerfully study also always good to hear different takes and ideas to consider . Yea it seems some people have different takes on scripture is the thing . I agree with much of what your saying especially how you understand where our spirit goes in Christ .

let me try to show you my take on a few things

here’s what I mean about man is two parts look at creation

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

became a living soul you my dear brother are 1 living soul. You consist of a body of flesh and a spirit of life within.

see man has a body and the spirit of life from God those two elements make 1 living soul.

the two elements of man

“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This continues through the Bible it is the duality of man the conflict within good v evil. Spirit v flesh .

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63

from beginning to end it is flesh and spirit struggling for the soul of mankind . The Bible has much to say of this struggle.

there is a physical aspect of man and an inner aspect the spiritual living aspect.


There is a physical death for our flesh the first death, and there is a spiritual death for our spirit the second death.

that’s the two deaths pretty clearly so it makes sense there is a resurrection of the spirit after the first death and then a resurrection of the body in the end avoiding the second death. Which to me makes good sense given the totality of scripture

but again I can tell you have studied this a lot and I do find a lot of agreement in your comment

there are two births one of the condemned flesh into this world and then one of the spirit into the kingdom .

The flesh is condemned

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to enter the kingdom we have to be born of the spirit in this life and receive our new bodies later Still always remaining two aspects spirit and body .

See there are two worlds promised, two covenants , two births , Two deaths , two resurrections because everything is about the two aspects of man the material and physical and the spiritual the great conflict Adams dominion failed and cursed this world , Christ’s dominion is now in heaven and like your saying he’s gonna come back and deal with it all
Click to expand...
There is a physical death for our flesh the first death, and there is a spiritual death for our spirit the second death.
Click to expand...
Actually, the first death is the death of these bodies. For the unsaved, the second death will include the body soul and spirit. Allow me to explain: The word "anastasis" translated as 'Resurrections' means to stand up again in the same physical body that you died in. When the Lord appears and the dead rise first, their bodies which have been decaying in the ground will be reanimated, immortal and glorified. Jesus is our example of this. For His body was in the tomb for three days and nights. During that time, His spirit/soul was down in the comfort area of Hades. After the three days and nights, His spirit returned to His body in the tomb and He came to life again, immortal and glorified. When He comes to gather His church, the bodies of the dead will be reconstructed/reanimated and their spirits will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.

Likewise, when the unrighteous dead are resurrected, they too will stand up again in their reanimated bodies, where their resurrected body, soul and spirit will endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

So, the resurrection of both the righteous and wicked has to do with body, soul and spirit. Those who were appointed for eternal life will exist in their resurrected immortal and glorified bodies. Likewise, the wicked will be resurrected with their soul and spirit within that body, but to endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

So to say that the first death is physical and the second death spiritual, is not completely true. To be clear, the resurrected bodies for both saved and unsaved, will contain their soul and spirit. To be clearer, both the saved and unsaved will have physical, tangible, corporeal bodies. Consider the following:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

The scripture above describes the great white throne judgment, which is made up of all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The 'sea giving up its dead' is referring to those who physically died in the ocean whose bodies are being resurrected. The reference to Hades giving up its dead, is referring to the individual's soul/spirit which is reunited with their resurrected bodies. Regarding the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, Paul wrote the following:

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Daniel also mentioned the resurrection of the righteous and wicked:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Whether righteous or wicked, the soul and spirit of both will be contained in their resurrected body, the righteous in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God and the wicked in separation from God in the lake of fire.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#64
Sep 2, 2020
12,234
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#64
Ahwatukee said:
Actually, the first death is the death of these bodies. For the unsaved, the second death will include the body soul and spirit. Allow me to explain: The word "anastasis" translated as 'Resurrections' means to stand up again in the same physical body that you died in. When the Lord appears and the dead rise first, their bodies which have been decaying in the ground will be reanimated, immortal and glorified. Jesus is our example of this. For His body was in the tomb for three days and nights. During that time, His spirit/soul was down in the comfort area of Hades. After the three days and nights, His spirit returned to His body in the tomb and He came to life again, immortal and glorified. When He comes to gather His church, the bodies of the dead will be reconstructed/reanimated and their spirits will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.

Likewise, when the unrighteous dead are resurrected, they too will stand up again in their reanimated bodies, where their resurrected body, soul and spirit will endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

So, the resurrection of both the righteous and wicked has to do with body, soul and spirit. Those who were appointed for eternal life will exist in their resurrected immortal and glorified bodies. Likewise, the wicked will be resurrected with their soul and spirit within that body, but to endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

So to say that the first death is physical and the second death spiritual, is not completely true. To be clear, the resurrected bodies for both saved and unsaved, will contain their soul and spirit. To be clearer, both the saved and unsaved will have physical, tangible, corporeal bodies. Consider the following:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

The scripture above describes the great white throne judgment, which is made up of all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The 'sea giving up its dead' is referring to those who physically died in the ocean whose bodies are being resurrected. The reference to Hades giving up its dead, is referring to the individual's soul/spirit which is reunited with their resurrected bodies. Regarding the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, Paul wrote the following:

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Daniel also mentioned the resurrection of the righteous and wicked:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Whether righteous or wicked, the soul and spirit of both will be contained in their resurrected body, the righteous in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God and the wicked in separation from God in the lake of fire.
Click to expand...
alright thanks for the discussion

God bless you indeed
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#65
Sep 2, 2020
12,234
4,955
113
#65
Ahwatukee said:
Actually, the first death is the death of these bodies. For the unsaved, the second death will include the body soul and spirit. Allow me to explain: The word "anastasis" translated as 'Resurrections' means to stand up again in the same physical body that you died in. When the Lord appears and the dead rise first, their bodies which have been decaying in the ground will be reanimated, immortal and glorified. Jesus is our example of this. For His body was in the tomb for three days and nights. During that time, His spirit/soul was down in the comfort area of Hades. After the three days and nights, His spirit returned to His body in the tomb and He came to life again, immortal and glorified. When He comes to gather His church, the bodies of the dead will be reconstructed/reanimated and their spirits will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.

Likewise, when the unrighteous dead are resurrected, they too will stand up again in their reanimated bodies, where their resurrected body, soul and spirit will endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

So, the resurrection of both the righteous and wicked has to do with body, soul and spirit. Those who were appointed for eternal life will exist in their resurrected immortal and glorified bodies. Likewise, the wicked will be resurrected with their soul and spirit within that body, but to endure eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

So to say that the first death is physical and the second death spiritual, is not completely true. To be clear, the resurrected bodies for both saved and unsaved, will contain their soul and spirit. To be clearer, both the saved and unsaved will have physical, tangible, corporeal bodies. Consider the following:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

The scripture above describes the great white throne judgment, which is made up of all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The 'sea giving up its dead' is referring to those who physically died in the ocean whose bodies are being resurrected. The reference to Hades giving up its dead, is referring to the individual's soul/spirit which is reunited with their resurrected bodies. Regarding the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, Paul wrote the following:

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Daniel also mentioned the resurrection of the righteous and wicked:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Whether righteous or wicked, the soul and spirit of both will be contained in their resurrected body, the righteous in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God and the wicked in separation from God in the lake of fire.
Click to expand...
I’m looking at it like this

Mathis is
Mans beginning

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

at death this happens

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7

man is a body of flesh ( dust)

and a living spirit from God

those two elements seem to make up 1 living soul the math seems simple .


As far as the first death yes that’s what I’m saying the first death everyone experiences like Jesus and all his apostles and every other man has with the exceptions of Enoch and Elijah that’s the first death the second death is stated perfectly as the final judgement those not written in Jesus book of life experience the second death with Satan and his minions I already wuoted that part .

What I was telling you earlier was that day is the same day as this

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭

Same day as this

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭

same day as this

therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40

same day as this written to the church

Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Same day as this written to the church

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”

‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

which is the one day appointed for all people to be judged

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we agree on the two deaths I think one of the body one regarding the lake of fire which is spiritual. That’s sort of plain I think my view is that man is made of a body and flesh and man is a living soul . There are the two deaths one for flesh and one for spirit the lake of fire . it’s actually called the second death right there in scripture so I’m solid on that

I’m thinking it makes sense that the two resurrections are the same way one for the spirit which happens by the gospel for example

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where the new birth or regeneration of our spirit comes from

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again those same two aspects flesh and spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭


That’s the first resurrection that we’re blessed to take part in those who believe the gospel . It’s a resurrection of the spirit later will come the new perfect body . Two resurrections for two distinct parts of man we can avoid the second death by believing the gospel and accepting the resurrection and the life

spiritual resurrection now promises bodily resurrection at the appointed time . We’re blessed if we believe and our spirit goes to Christ to await the great day of the lords judgement and our new home in his everlasting kingdom
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#66
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#66
Pilgrimshope said:
I’m looking at it like this

Mathis is
Mans beginning

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

at death this happens

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7

man is a body of flesh ( dust)

and a living spirit from God

those two elements seem to make up 1 living soul the math seems simple .


As far as the first death yes that’s what I’m saying the first death everyone experiences like Jesus and all his apostles and every other man has with the exceptions of Enoch and Elijah that’s the first death the second death is stated perfectly as the final judgement those not written in Jesus book of life experience the second death with Satan and his minions I already wuoted that part .

What I was telling you earlier was that day is the same day as this

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭

Same day as this

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭

same day as this

therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40

same day as this written to the church

Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Same day as this written to the church

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”

‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

which is the one day appointed for all people to be judged

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we agree on the two deaths I think one of the body one regarding the lake of fire which is spiritual. That’s sort of plain I think my view is that man is made of a body and flesh and man is a living soul . There are the two deaths one for flesh and one for spirit the lake of fire . it’s actually called the second death right there in scripture so I’m solid on that

I’m thinking it makes sense that the two resurrections are the same way one for the spirit which happens by the gospel for example

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where the new birth or regeneration of our spirit comes from

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again those same two aspects flesh and spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭


That’s the first resurrection that we’re blessed to take part in those who believe the gospel . It’s a resurrection of the spirit later will come the new perfect body . Two resurrections for two distinct parts of man we can avoid the second death by believing the gospel and accepting the resurrection and the life

spiritual resurrection now promises bodily resurrection at the appointed time . We’re blessed if we believe and our spirit goes to Christ to await the great day of the lords judgement and our new home in his everlasting kingdom
Click to expand...
So, how do you interpret the following:

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The reference to 'the dividing of soul and spirit" demonstrates that though these two are closely intertwined, yet the word of God can penetrate to divide them i.e. to that most hidden spot, the dividing line between soul and spirit, where the one passes into the other.

I'm just trying to give the benefit of my studies regarding the makeup of a human beings. I would also use the Godhead as an example: Is there not God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit who make up one God, yet they are three? And are human beings not made in God's image?

Soul
psuché psyxḗ (from psyxō, "to breathe, blow" which is the root of the English words "psyche," "psychology") – soul (psyche); a person's distinct identity (unique personhood), i.e. individual personality.

5590 (psyxē) corresponds exactly to the OT 5315 /phágō ("soul"). The soul is the direct aftermath of God breathing (blowing) His gift of life into a person, making them an ensouled being.

Spirit

pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.


"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it." (I Thessalonians 5:23)

Blessings in Christ!
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Ahwatukee said:
So, how do you interpret the following:

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The reference to 'the dividing of soul and spirit" demonstrates that though these two are closely intertwined, yet the word of God can penetrate to divide them i.e. to that most hidden spot, the dividing line between soul and spirit, where the one passes into the other.

I'm just trying to give the benefit of my studies regarding the makeup of a human beings. I would also use the Godhead as an example: Is there not God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit who make up one God, yet they are three? And are human beings not made in God's image?

Soul
psuché psyxḗ (from psyxō, "to breathe, blow" which is the root of the English words "psyche," "psychology") – soul (psyche); a person's distinct identity (unique personhood), i.e. individual personality.

5590 (psyxē) corresponds exactly to the OT 5315 /phágō ("soul"). The soul is the direct aftermath of God breathing (blowing) His gift of life into a person, making them an ensouled being.

Spirit

pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.


"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it." (I Thessalonians 5:23)

Blessings in Christ!
Click to expand...
can I just say it’s nice to have good conversation with no offense and friendly people seems to be a lot of you here with good thoughts .

I would say that verse is saying if you accept and put faith on the word of God it has the power to change your heart and save your soul . I wouldn’t discount all of the other scripture based on that is only how I myself would look at it.

( I actually as I’m writing this had a thought that man is made in Gods image. God has three aspects. So man has two and then we receive the holt spirit from heaven Gods presence in us which completes us in his image )

Just a thought I literally just had but to
Me I’d say the image of that verse is more Gods word is able to save our souls if we accept it and believe it can destroy things in our minds and hearts like strongholds.


I just simply think about it I’m not implying it’s how anyone has to believe or implying that you do not have it figured out just was studying on mans makeup and you seem also to have good points I do very much agree with also just FYI

it just honestly This idea or subject had never occurred to Me lol you inspired a study and I’m still sort of digging here and there .

from what I’m finding without using anything other than scripture I see it simply as looking at mans creation a soul is what a man is

Again I’m surely no authority on the subject just discussing and searching scripture
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

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Hebrews 11
“24 By Faith Moses, when he was come to years (refers to him coming to the age of 40 [Ex. 2:11]), refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter (in effect, he refused the position of Pharaoh of Egypt, for which he had been trained because he had been adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter);

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God (proclaims the choice Moses made; He traded the temporal for the Eternal), than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season (presents the choice which must be made, affliction or the pleasures of sin);

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt (he judged the reproach was greater than the throne of Egypt): for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Moses habitually “looked away” from the treasures in Egypt, and purposely fixed his eye on the Heavenly Reward.)”

“DECEIVERS - 2 John 1
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world (a false teacher who leads others into heresies, i.e., “away from the Cross”), who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (a denial of the Incarnation). This is a deceiver and an Antichrist. (All false doctrine begins with a misconception or misinterpretation of the “Person” of Christ.)

8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought (is the same as Paul’s “examine yourselves” [II Cor. 13:5]), but that we receive a full reward (refers to the coming Judgment Seat of Christ, where and when every true Christian will give account).

9 Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the Doctrine of Christ, has not God. (The “Doctrine of Christ” is in brief “the Cross.” If one leaves the Cross, one transgresses, and no longer has the Lord, which means that the soul will be lost if such direction is continued.) He who abides in the Doctrine of Christ, he has Both the Father and the Son (Gal. 5:1-6).

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this Doctrine (Jesus Christ and Him Crucified), receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed (to receive such shows acceptance):

11 For he who bids him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (To help or finance false Apostles makes the person doing such a part of the false doctrine, which is serious indeed!)”

JSM
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

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Your Word for Today

“Therefore leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of Repentance from dead works, and of Faith toward God, Of the Doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of Resurrection of the dead, and of Eternal Judgment (Heb. 6:1-2).

The above quoted Scriptures are those used by individuals who claim that the Cross, although proper for Salvation, has no meaning thereafter, and that the Believer should go beyond the Cross.

There is, however, nothing beyond the Cross, as there needs to be nothing beyond the Cross. These individuals are basing their belief system on a gross misinterpretation of the Scriptures, which we will address here.

We must, first of all, understand that the entirety of the Bible points to Christ, both Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament points to Christ Who was to come, while the New Testament points to Christ Who has come. Christ and the Cross are ever before the Reader in the entirety of the Word of God (Jn. 1:1).

When Paul said, “Therefore leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ,” he was speaking of the first principles (Heb. 5:12), which pertained to the Law of the Moses. The entirety of the Law of Moses, and in every capacity, pointed to Christ, which it was meant to do. With Christ now having come, it is not proper, Paul tells these Christian Jews, to try to cling to the old Law. It has already been fulfilled in Christ. Consequently, we should leave those first principles of the Law.

The phrase, “Let us go on unto perfection,” should have been translated, “maturity.” The Apostle is saying that it’s not possible for the Believer to mature when he is improperly addressing Christ, i.e., when he is going back to the Law.

The phrase, “Not laying again the foundation of Repentance from dead works,” had to do with repentance as it regarded the animal sacrifices. Due to the fact that Christ has come and has gone to the Cross, thereby atoning for all sin, the Sacrificial System of old is now adjudged to be “dead works.” Repentance must be on the basis of what Christ has done at the Cross, and not on the Sacrificial System of old (I Jn. 1:7).

The short phrase, “And of faith toward God,” refers, as here stated, to improper faith. It is faith toward God based on the old Sacrificial System, which the Lord now will not accept. Our faith must be in Christ and what Christ has done at the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14).

The phrase, “Of the Doctrine of baptisms,” should have been translated “of the Doctrine of Washings,” which is what the original Greek actually says. The “washings” mentioned here had to do, once again, with the animal sacrifices, which required washings before they were offered up on the Altar. It also referred to the Priests, who had to wash in the Brazen Laver, both hands and feet, every time they entered into the Holy Place of the Tabernacle or Temple.

The phrase, “And of laying on of hands,” is not pertaining to the custom of laying on of hands to bless people, or to pray for their healing, etc., but rather of the sinner who had brought the lamb for sacrifice. Just before the lamb was killed, the sinner laid his hands on the lamb’s head and confessed his sins. That is no longer needed, as should be obvious, inasmuch as Jesus has gone to the Cross. Now, we pray to God the Father in the Name of Jesus, confessing our sins (Jn. 16:23; I Jn. 1:9).

The phrase, “And of Resurrection of the dead,” simply means that before the Resurrection of Christ, the fact of the Resurrection was known only in shadow. Now, since the Resurrection of Christ, there is a far greater understanding.

The phrase, “And of Eternal Judgment,” was, in Old Testament times, also known only with very little knowledge. In fact, during those times, God was looked at more so as a Judge than a Saviour.

So, it shows a great misunderstanding of these Passages of Scripture for Believers to use them to claim that Believers are to leave the Cross after getting saved and go on to other things. I hope this is, by now, overly obvious. It is impossible to go beyond the Cross, because every single thing the Lord does is based on the foundation of the Cross, and in totality.

That’s why Paul said, “We preach Christ Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23). In fact, the Cross of Christ is an Everlasting Covenant (Heb. 13:20).”

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Ahwatukee said:
So, how do you interpret the following:

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The reference to 'the dividing of soul and spirit" demonstrates that though these two are closely intertwined, yet the word of God can penetrate to divide them i.e. to that most hidden spot, the dividing line between soul and spirit, where the one passes into the other.

I'm just trying to give the benefit of my studies regarding the makeup of a human beings. I would also use the Godhead as an example: Is there not God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit who make up one God, yet they are three? And are human beings not made in God's image?

Soul
psuché psyxḗ (from psyxō, "to breathe, blow" which is the root of the English words "psyche," "psychology") – soul (psyche); a person's distinct identity (unique personhood), i.e. individual personality.

5590 (psyxē) corresponds exactly to the OT 5315 /phágō ("soul"). The soul is the direct aftermath of God breathing (blowing) His gift of life into a person, making them an ensouled being.

Spirit

pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.


"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it." (I Thessalonians 5:23)

Blessings in Christ!
Click to expand...
I did a quick look here is what I see in that verse

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬



he’s saying the word of God is powerful to effectively work in mankind . so sharp it could separate soul and spirit . It’s a witness that Gods word Is powerful
we need that truth because this is our issue regarding sin

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


So when you inject Gods powerful word through Christ into your heart because you actually believe it. it has the power to discern good and evil in our hearts and bring us to repentance . Changing the latter heart of sin into the living heart created by the gospel

I say through Christ because of how Hebrews begins the book is much about this

“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
when you get to four there your reading about the power of Gods living word of the new covenant in Christ , that the book begins witnessing.

the whole book makes the argument that Christ’s word superceeds the rest because of who he is nearer to the end you find out jesus mediated the new covenant and when he shed his blood all of the things he preached while alive on earth became Gods word of eternal life
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Pilgrimshope said:
I did a quick look here is what I see in that verse

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬



he’s saying the word of God is powerful to effectively work in mankind . so sharp it could separate soul and spirit . It’s a witness that Gods word Is powerful
we need that truth because this is our issue regarding sin

Yes, you are correct in that the verse is saying that. But what you are not paying attention to is Paul's mentioning the dividing of both soul and spirit, the purpose of which was to demonstrate to you that human beings are not just body and soul, but body, soul and spirit. This was also the reason that I provided the following scripture as further proof supporting that mankind is made up of body, soul and spirit.

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it." (I Thessalonians 5:23)

Our body, soul and spirit will be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord. Do you understand? There are three elements mentioned in those scriptures, which validates that we are made up of body, soul and spirit.
Click to expand...
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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brother Please consider the simplicity


“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV

that’s all that needs to be grasped on my humble view . A living man with a body and spirit equals one living soul

Is our math the same ? If so just from this one verse describing to us in the Bible how man was created and what he was

can we start there in agreement according to the Bible’s account of mankind’s creation God formed his body and then breathed into him a living spirit ? And man became a living soul ?

that’s agreeable ?
 
Pilgrimshope

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you missed what I was getting at regarding separation of spirit and soul .

a soul is a body with a living spirit that’s a soul . ( just so you understand my thinking and what’s leading me there .

okay so you have a body and spirit a living soul . Some will explain that when Adam was cursed to death , it was either his body flesh that was cursed or his spirit . But God spoke to the whole man after body and spirit were made 1. So Adams entire soul both body and spirit were condemned .

ok there is a new spirit we are promised now in this life . That is where I tied in the word of God separating the spirit from the soul . You see the old condemned spirit is removed through the gospel as I was awkwardly trying to say.

the spirit we inherited through Adam the natural man is separated from our soul through the gospel and were reborn in the Holy Spirit.

it’s a death of the old and birth of the new. Spiritual speaking. Gods word can transform our inner man make us new it has that power was my point . I hope this makes more sense

a spirit requires a physical body to operate in this world those two elements of man make a
Living man, a soul.

Our souls or “ us” we are saved both parts first our spirit is saved and we have the certain promise of the resurrection body for our saved spirit that’s our eternal soul the spirit which comes from God through Christ and the gospel. In the glorified body we are promised in due season.

This is even true of demons they require a body to possess in order to exist and act in this world. For instance how the hilt spirit works through physical people to share Gods Love in the world.

But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:6-9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how there’s a lot of evil spirits possessing people in the Bible ? A spirit cannot act it can only work through a persons mind and heart the spiritual part of us the unseen life of mankind.


sorry for the length thebspirit is separated from the soul but we’re given a new one because a soul requires both
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Pilgrimshope said:
brother Please consider the simplicity


“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV

that’s all that needs to be grasped on my humble view . A living man with a body and spirit equals one living soul

Is our math the same ? If so just from this one verse describing to us in the Bible how man was created and what he was

can we start there in agreement according to the Bible’s account of mankind’s creation God formed his body and then breathed into him a living spirit ? And man became a living soul ?

that’s agreeable ?
Click to expand...
Since the body, soul and spirit is mentioned in those scriptures that I provided, what do you do with the reference to the spirit, toss it aside? If someone where to ask you what the make up mankind is, would you just tell them 'body and soul?'

One of the on-going problems with many expositors, is that when making a claim, they do so with only partial information. They grab ahold of one and ignore the others.

When coming to any scriptural conclusion, we need to apply all of the related information. In this case, you are reading in Genesis that man became a living soul and so you camp out on that and cast aside Paul's references to the make up of mankind by citing the body, soul and spirit. This error is continually being performed by expositors on just about every Biblical subject. Bear with my while I demonstrate some examples on this.

=================================

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." - Matt.24:30-31

***********

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his Saints 15to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” - Jude 1:14-15

***********

"His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” - Rev.19:12-15

=======================================

All of the above scriptures are in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. In Matt.24:31, only angels are mentioned coming with the Lord when He returns to the earth. In contrast, both Jude and Rev., only mention the church referred to as saints and the armies in heaven. However no angels are mentioned.

That said, do you just read the scripture in Matt.24:31 and conclude that only angels are going to be with Christ when He returns to the earth to end the age. Or do you include the information in Jude 1:15 and Rev.19:12-14 and conclude that when the Lord returns, both the church and the angels will be returning with Christ when He ends the age?

Apply all information from all related scriptural topics, not just some.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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There are the same three elements mentioned at creation brother but the body and spirit together become a living soul
Ahwatukee said:
Since the body, soul and spirit is mentioned in those scriptures that I provided, what do you do with the reference to the spirit, toss it aside? If someone where to ask you what the make up mankind is, would you just tell them 'body and soul?'

One of the on-going problems with many expositors, is that when making a claim, they do so with only partial information. They grab ahold of one and ignore the others.

When coming to any scriptural conclusion, we need to apply all of the related information. In this case, you are reading in Genesis that man became a living soul and so you camp out on that and cast aside Paul's references to the make up of mankind by citing the body, soul and spirit. This error is continually being performed by expositors on just about every Biblical subject. Bear with my while I demonstrate some examples on this.

=================================

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." - Matt.24:30-31

***********

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his Saints 15to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” - Jude 1:14-15

***********

"His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” - Rev.19:12-15

=======================================

All of the above scriptures are in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. In Matt.24:31, only angels are mentioned coming with the Lord when He returns to the earth. In contrast, both Jude and Rev., only mention the church referred to as saints and the armies in heaven. However no angels are mentioned.

That said, do you just read the scripture in Matt.24:31 and conclude that only angels are going to be with Christ when He returns to the earth to end the age. Or do you include the information in Jude 1:15 and Rev.19:12-14 and conclude that when the Lord returns, both the church and the angels will be returning with Christ when He ends the age?

Apply all information from all related scriptural topics, not just some.
Click to expand...
yea again I would understand it like I stated but not wanting to argue your free to interpret things and maybe you are correct

like I was saying to me if you want to know what a man is you
Look at how he was made and what gods word says he is I’m sorry we can’t agree but not really My subject of expertise you just inspired some study and that’s all I see

I think if you could explain why this doesn’t make sense

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and again how does a soul sin and die if it’s not a man ?

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:

and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬


souls are people . Not a dead body but a body United with a living spirit becomes a living soul . It seems ultra simple and maybe I’m wrong but almost like your looking past the basics because of obscure phrases but everything else lines up perfectly with the creation

it’s why Paul says to crucify the old man and take on the new that’s a new spirit . Sort of the whole nt doctrine is about spirit and flesh

“And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭27:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Souls are living human beings we have a body and a living spirit which God Gave man is a living soul.

that’s why you have a testament that commands carnal Commands and a second for the spiritual commands. It’s why you have to be born of the spirit again why were promised a second body

honestly bro I think the term soul may be a little interchangeable because of translation of terms
Like spirit and soul . I’m stuck I guess on the basic simplicity of creation and then the promise of the gospel is for a new spirit and new body that’s a soul in my view

the three elements your talking about is 1+1 =1 living soul

I might say a thousand souls died that day , I’m saying a thousand people died . A whole Man is a soul That’s where my dime lays but again it’s just a dime not a million dollars not really My subject

Od bless though it could be you just like you said really understand something I don’t yet but I’m not grasping it yet
thank you for the time and effort to help I’m sure I’ll keep considering maybe it will click in the future for
Me
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#76
#76
Ahwatukee said:
Since the body, soul and spirit is mentioned in those scriptures that I provided, what do you do with the reference to the spirit, toss it aside? If someone where to ask you what the make up mankind is, would you just tell them 'body and soul?'

One of the on-going problems with many expositors, is that when making a claim, they do so with only partial information. They grab ahold of one and ignore the others.

When coming to any scriptural conclusion, we need to apply all of the related information. In this case, you are reading in Genesis that man became a living soul and so you camp out on that and cast aside Paul's references to the make up of mankind by citing the body, soul and spirit. This error is continually being performed by expositors on just about every Biblical subject. Bear with my while I demonstrate some examples on this.

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"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." - Matt.24:30-31

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"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his Saints 15to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” - Jude 1:14-15

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"His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” - Rev.19:12-15

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All of the above scriptures are in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. In Matt.24:31, only angels are mentioned coming with the Lord when He returns to the earth. In contrast, both Jude and Rev., only mention the church referred to as saints and the armies in heaven. However no angels are mentioned.

That said, do you just read the scripture in Matt.24:31 and conclude that only angels are going to be with Christ when He returns to the earth to end the age. Or do you include the information in Jude 1:15 and Rev.19:12-14 and conclude that when the Lord returns, both the church and the angels will be returning with Christ when He ends the age?

Apply all information from all related scriptural topics, not just some.
Click to expand...
The whole Spirit, Soul and Body topic is worthy of a new thread. I will start one. See where it goes. I lean toward a bipartite view man is spirit and body, or man is soul and body, and that the words spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture. I will give further reasons in my initial post in the new thread. "Is Soul and Spirit used interchangeably in scripture? Is man Bipartite or Tripartite?"
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#77
Sep 2, 2020
12,234
4,955
113
#77
Scribe said:
The whole Spirit, Soul and Body topic is worthy of a new thread. I will start one. See where it goes. I lean toward a bipartite view man is spirit and body, or man is soul and body, and that the words spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture. I will give further reasons in my initial post in the new thread. "Is Soul and Spirit used interchangeably in scripture? Is man Bipartite or Tripartite?"
Click to expand...
Scribe said:
The whole Spirit, Soul and Body topic is worthy of a new thread. I will start one. See where it goes. I lean toward a bipartite view man is spirit and body, or man is soul and body, and that the words spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture. I will give further reasons in my initial post in the new thread. "Is Soul and Spirit used interchangeably in scripture? Is man Bipartite or Tripartite?"
Click to expand...
looking very much forward to hearing your views brother
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#80
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#80
Scribe said:
The whole Spirit, Soul and Body topic is worthy of a new thread. I will start one. See where it goes. I lean toward a bipartite view man is spirit and body, or man is soul and body, and that the words spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture. I will give further reasons in my initial post in the new thread. "Is Soul and Spirit used interchangeably in scripture? Is man Bipartite or Tripartite?"
Click to expand...
When body, soul and spirit are used in the same verse to describe man's makeup, it demonstrates that they are not the same, but are independent.

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it."

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

The scriptures above pretty much settles any debate on this issue. Though both spirit and soul are used interchangeably, from the scriptures above they are also independent of each other.
 
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