Pre-trib rapture mentioned in the letters
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[pre-tribber here! 
Me!]
I was just curious...
My question (about what the OP vid is saying) is, from where does the video speaker believe the quote in Eph5:14 stems/originates? For example, John Gill points out how there are differing viewpoints on just where it came from:
[quoting from Gill ...on Ephesians 5:14]
"Wherefore he saith,.... Either the man that is light in the Lord, who reproves the unfruitful works of darkness; or else the Holy Ghost by Paul, who here speaks after the manner of the prophets; or God, or the Spirit, or the Scripture; see James 4:6; but where is it said? some think the apostle refers to Isaiah 9:2; others to Isaiah 26:19; others to Isaiah 60:1; some are of opinion the words are cited out of an apocryphal book of Jeremy, or from some writing now lost; and some have thought them to be a saying of Christ, that was fresh in memory: it may not be improper to observe what Maimonides says [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides ] (m), that
" "the blowing of the trumpet in the beginning of the year had an intimation in it, as if was said, "awake ye that sleep", from your sleep, and ye that slumber rouse up from your slumber, and search into your actions, and return by repentance, and remember your Creator;'' "
[end quoting Gill; bold and underline mine; inserted bracketed wiki link mine]
I'm just curious about what the speaker's viewpoint is, on that, as to where he believes the referenced quote in Eph5:14 originates (so I can try to ascertain more clearly as to his reasonings for his conclusion... which, if he is attaching "our Rapture" with "RH," I would say that I am disinclined to agree, even as a pre-tribber myself [having studied out a great many of the viewpoints, on this subject]--does it sound as though the speaker may be drawing from the last of these examples, above, in Gill's comment?)
Just wondering... was curious.
IOW, what is the basis of his argument?
[to be clear, I do believe Paul references it throughout his epistles, outside of the usual one or two we commonly think of , but I have question re: how the OP video speaker came to the specific conclusion he has (here in this clip)... so that I can look into his reasonings further... again, because I am disinclined to agree with it, but am curious as to the basis for his argument. Thanks! ]
Me!]I was just curious...
My question (about what the OP vid is saying) is, from where does the video speaker believe the quote in Eph5:14 stems/originates? For example, John Gill points out how there are differing viewpoints on just where it came from:
[quoting from Gill ...on Ephesians 5:14]
"Wherefore he saith,.... Either the man that is light in the Lord, who reproves the unfruitful works of darkness; or else the Holy Ghost by Paul, who here speaks after the manner of the prophets; or God, or the Spirit, or the Scripture; see James 4:6; but where is it said? some think the apostle refers to Isaiah 9:2; others to Isaiah 26:19; others to Isaiah 60:1; some are of opinion the words are cited out of an apocryphal book of Jeremy, or from some writing now lost; and some have thought them to be a saying of Christ, that was fresh in memory: it may not be improper to observe what Maimonides says [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides ] (m), that
" "the blowing of the trumpet in the beginning of the year had an intimation in it, as if was said, "awake ye that sleep", from your sleep, and ye that slumber rouse up from your slumber, and search into your actions, and return by repentance, and remember your Creator;'' "
[end quoting Gill; bold and underline mine; inserted bracketed wiki link mine]
I'm just curious about what the speaker's viewpoint is, on that, as to where he believes the referenced quote in Eph5:14 originates (so I can try to ascertain more clearly as to his reasonings for his conclusion... which, if he is attaching "our Rapture" with "RH," I would say that I am disinclined to agree, even as a pre-tribber myself [having studied out a great many of the viewpoints, on this subject]--does it sound as though the speaker may be drawing from the last of these examples, above, in Gill's comment?)
Just wondering... was curious.
IOW, what is the basis of his argument?
[to be clear, I do believe Paul references it throughout his epistles, outside of the usual one or two we commonly think of
, but I have question re: how the OP video speaker came to the specific conclusion he has (here in this clip)... so that I can look into his reasonings further... again, because I am disinclined to agree with it, but am curious as to the basis for his argument. Thanks! ]
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. (Eph 5:14)
There is no exact Bible reference to this verse, but Proverbs 4:18 comes close: But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
In any event, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Rapture. And John Gill would not be able to shed any light on the Rapture either. According to his commentary, he treats the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming as one event. But they are not one event.
There is no exact Bible reference to this verse, but Proverbs 4:18 comes close: But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
In any event, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Rapture. And John Gill would not be able to shed any light on the Rapture either. According to his commentary, he treats the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming as one event. But they are not one event.
To be clear, to you and to the readers, I was not using Gill as a reference to "pre-trib" thought (though I myself am indeed pre-trib), I was supplying Gill's comment for the purpose of [his] setting out the various views on "where [ppl blv] that quote [in Eph5:14] stems from"... as he points out a few distinct references that people/others hold.
I was curious as to which, if any of these, the OP vid speaker himself believes it stems from (so I can ascertain the basis of his overall argument, on this point--as this is an area I've studied extensively myself [though with differing conclusion (still a "pre-trib" one, however!)]--I'm curious as to his basis for it).
If anyone else has a thought, on this ^ [what the SPEAKER'S basis is, behind this verse], I'd be interested in hearing it. Thanks.
I was curious as to which, if any of these, the OP vid speaker himself believes it stems from (so I can ascertain the basis of his overall argument, on this point--as this is an area I've studied extensively myself [though with differing conclusion (still a "pre-trib" one, however!)]--I'm curious as to his basis for it).
If anyone else has a thought, on this ^ [what the SPEAKER'S basis is, behind this verse], I'd be interested in hearing it. Thanks.
That's nice, but the Bible doesn't say anywhere that there is a pre-tribulation rapture.
The speaker in that video believes in pre-tribulationism so he's projecting that belief into the interpretation. Notice how he went from equating "rise those who sleep" to saying it is a reference to pre-tribulation rapture without ever building a case as to why.
Here's what the Bible actually says:
15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31
1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye
11 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom
Revelation 11:15
In conclusion, after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye.
The speaker in that video believes in pre-tribulationism so he's projecting that belief into the interpretation. Notice how he went from equating "rise those who sleep" to saying it is a reference to pre-tribulation rapture without ever building a case as to why.
Here's what the Bible actually says:
15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31
1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye
11 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom
Revelation 11:15
In conclusion, after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye.
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