The End, the A.C., Revelation and the rest of it.

Who is the beast that "was,and is not,and is about to ascend"? That is it had existed prior to Revelation but did not when the angel explained it to John back then in Revelation. When did it receive it's deadly wound, prior to John receiving the Revelation? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm

The beast is not one man or one empire. neither is the false prophet just one man or one religious insitution.

The beast and false prophet are a repeating attack strategy that the demonic powers have and will continue to use to deceive and control the world until Christ Returns.

One example of this is the Islamic Stat.e. This is where Islam (false prophet) and government (beast) are intertwined. Saudi Arabia has a King (Beast) who appoints the most senior and influential religious leader called the Grand Mufti (false prophet). Iran has a supreme religious leader (false prophet) who appoints the government (beast)

In general the beast and false prophet work in tandem. But what this verse is telling us is that there will be a period of time where the beast will not exist and the false prophet will work to deceive without the force and oppression of the beast.

One example today where the beast is not is with the secular Islamic country of Turkey which has/had a secular democratic government and therefore for a time the Beast was not in Turkey. The false prophet of Islam has always remained in Turkey though. Today, however, Their leader Erdogon is becoming like a king as he is moving Turkey back toward becoming like an authoritarian Islamic State. Thus the beast is yet to come.

Anyone follow?

Who is the beast that "was,and is not,and is about to ascend"? That is it had existed prior to Revelation but did not when the angel explained it to John back then in Revelation. When did it receive it's deadly wound, prior to John receiving the Revelation? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm

A beast is a kingdom, it existed before Rev. 17:8 was penned but was wounded by the time the angel explained it to John and has already ascended and is present now but you haven't looked for it because you look to defend your camps position so hard. The earth already said let us make an image of it,and did it. It would be in what your explaining now instead of somewhere in the future in your speech if you looked for it and found it.

Now your a little closer with tenses,your just not seeing it present tense because you think it's future and so never thought to look for it now.

Rome existed when the Revelation was given but then so did Egypt,Greece,Persia and the others. Who received a deadly wound and was not and who did the earth say let us make and image of and do it,and do they see it as God ordained and worship it?

It's what all the peterist and the futurist,amils ect. debate over all the day long. It's sitting right in front of their faces but being stubborn and protecting their camps blinds them all. It received a deadly wound and did not exist and then the futurist decided to bring it back and did. It will conquer the whole earth now.

No on the contrary one of the posters named it and said when it ascended out of the pit in this very thread but did not understand what they said was true of the eighth.

It's not an allegory...it's literal.

And because you have looked at this for so long and do perceive it literal I am of the mind that if I ask you these things you will continue to look for it literal.

no, Jesus said it would receive a deadly wound and it did and the earth decided to give it it's life back and did just like the Scriptures say and will pay the price for it.

If we were to decide or determine that Revelation was written before 70 A.D. - does your idea still hold true?

Just curios, what does Romans 9 have to do with the 144,000? If you are implying that they are the remnant of Israel, they are not. The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars of Rev.12 is representing the unbelieving nation of Israel. She/Israel gives birth to a male child, which is collective name representing the 144,000 who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. 144,000 believing Israelites coming out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, is the figurative meaning her 'giving birth to.' This is also supported in Rev.14 regarding the 144,000 which says "these are those who did not defile themselves with woman," which would infer that they are all males, ergo, male child.

All that said, the male child/144,000 are caught up to God and His throne right around the same time as Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven, which takes place around the middle of the seven years. The woman/unbelieving Israel, who gives birth to them, flees out into the desert where she will be cared for during the 1260 days which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period. During this time, I personally believe that unbelieving Israel will recognize Jesus as their Messiah by saying "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

OK, but The Feast of Dedication, today Hanukkah, once also called "Feast of the Maccabees," was a Jewish festival observed for eight days from the 25th of Kislev (usually in December, but occasionally late November, due to the lunisolar calendar).

It was instituted in the year 165 B.C. by Judas Maccabeus, his brothers, and the elders of the congregation of Israel in commemoration of the reconsecration of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and especially of the altar of burnt offerings, after they had been desecrated during the persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes ..

The Book of Macccabees is not bible unless you're Catholic. Are you Catholic?
thus the Feast of the Maccabees was not commanded by God. It is man made unless you consider the Book of Maccabees to be God's inspired word. Do you?

Therefore I remain in my current stance that the Feast of Dedication is not biblical or God-commanded, but is man-made.

Look at the nine post you quoted and make a determination...

Well - I already had an idea about what I should expect you to say; however, I was hoping for a more definitive answer. (i.e. - "I just wanted to hear it from the horses mouth." - so to speak)

I appreciate your take on the matter. I also appreciate that you cannot document each statement. But giving no scriptures makes it difficult to debate.

To shorten my answer (for you covered a lot of ground there) I will just show some salient facts, which, if true, cast doubt on your understanding. The first is the 144,000 of Revelation 7. They are Israelites since they come from the 12 Tribes. Why Dan is missing no expositor can satisfactorily answer.

But they are NOT SAVED. They are SEALED so that the effects of the Great Tribulation do not kill them (Revelation 9:4).

Next, although the Woman of Revelation Chapter 12 bears some similarities to Josephs dream in Genesis 37, the differences are many. Here are some:

1. Israel was never in heaven - the Woman of Rev.12 is
2. Israel is real. The Woman is a "sign"
3. There was no woman in Joseph's dream. His mother was represented by the moon
4. Joseph's mother was one of FOUR women who brought forth Israel
5. In Gen.37 the sun is Jacob - In Rev.12 the sun is the clothing of the Woman
6. In Gen.37 the moon is one of four Women - In Rev.12 the moon is a footstool
7. In Gen.37 stars are son's of Jacob - In Rev.12 stars are a crown
8. A crown is for ruling - in Gen.37 only one star ruled and the other served
9. Israel cannot be the stars for they (Israel) forfeit rule (Matt.21:43)
10. Israel is in chastisement for idolatry. How could she bring forth saved Israelites?
11. Israel are idolaters. How could they bring forth seed "that has the testimony of Jesus Christ"
12. How could Israel, who is divorced from God, bring forth the Bride of Christ

These 12 points make it impossible for the student of scripture to equate fallen, disowned, divorced and unrepentant Israel with a heavenly Woman. The Woman fits only one other Woman in scripture - New Jerusalem. These are the facts: The Woman is heavenly but on earth. So is New Jerusalem (Rev.21.2). New Jerusalem is a "sign" (She is City, Bride, Wife, Tabernacle and glory of God all at the same time). The Woman brings forth THREE seeds. (i) The Man-child who is the Overcomers (Rev.2:27, 12:5, 11). (ii) Those who have the testimony of Jesus but who are left on earth during the Great Tribulation (12:17). And (iii) those who keep the commandments of God - the Jewish remnant of Deuteronomy 30:1-5 mentioned above. Only in New Jerusalem we see these three again with the Christians as the Walls and Israel as the Gates. And finally, in the Book of Galatians, Israel and the Church are continuously CONTRASTED. In 4:22-26 they are again CONTRASTED, but verse 26 says that though they be so different as Sarah to Hagar, so different as bondage is to freedom, NEVERTHELESS Jerusalem ABOVE is Mother us ALL (both parties).

Israel never travailed in the birth of 144,000

The beast is not one man or one empire. neither is the false prophet just one man or one religious insitution.

The beast and false prophet are a repeating attack strategy that the demonic powers have and will continue to use to deceive and control the world until Christ Returns.

One example of this is the Islamic State. This is where Islam (false prophet) and government (beast) are intertwined. Saudi Arabia has a King (Beast) who appoints the most senior and influential religious leader called the Grand Mufti (false prophet). Iran has a supreme religious leader (false prophet) who appoints the government (beast)

In general the beast and false prophet work in tandem. But what this verse is telling us is that there will be a period of time where the beast will not exist and the false prophet will work to deceive without the force and oppression of the beast.

One example today where the beast is not is with the secular Islamic country of Turkey which has/had a secular democratic government and therefore for a time the Beast was not in Turkey. The false prophet of Islam has always remained in Turkey though. Today, however, Their leader Erdogon is becoming like a king (beast) as he is moving Turkey back toward becoming like an authoritarian Islamic State. Thus the beast is yet to come.

Anyone follow?

The Beast will be a (Human Man) and his body will be cast into the burning flame.

Daniel 7:9-11KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

I appreciate your take on the matter. I also appreciate that you cannot document each statement. But giving no scriptures makes it difficult to debate.

To shorten my answer (for you covered a lot of ground there) I will just show some salient facts, which, if true, cast doubt on your understanding. The first is the 144,000 of Revelation 7. They are Israelites since they come from the 12 Tribes. Why Dan is missing no expositor can satisfactorily answer. But they are NOT SAVED. They are SEALED so that the effects of the Great Tribulation do not kill them (Revelation 9:4). This the Lord did 2,500 years before in Ezekiel 9:4-6. Added to this, Romans Chapter 11:24-32 says that Israel is "blind" and "concluded by God in UNBELIEF UNTIL the times of the Gentiles are come in". There can no be talk of "acknowledging Jesus as their Messiah" till after Armageddon, at which event Gentile rule ends. Further, In 2nd Cor.5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new", there cannot be BELIEVING Jews, for the OLD is passed away, and ALL things are NEW. A Jew IN Christ by FAITH is not a Jew anymore. This is confirmed by Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11. Finally, Israel will gain their Land because they were under Abraham's Covenant and not because they believe in Christ. The prerequisite for restoration is in Deuteronomy 30:1-5 - a return to the Law of Moses. And for these reasons they are ON EARTH but protected from that which hurts the earth. The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are in heaven. They cannot be the same company.

Next, although the Woman of Revelation Chapter 12 bears some similarities to Josephs dream in Genesis 37, the differences are many. Here are some:

1. Israel was never in heaven - the Woman of Rev.12 is
2. Israel is real. The Woman is a "sign"
3. There was no woman in Joseph's dream. His mother was represented by the moon
4. Joseph's mother was one of FOUR women who brought forth Israel
5. In Gen.37 the sun is Jacob - In Rev.12 the sun is the clothing of the Woman
6. In Gen.37 the moon is one of four Women - In Rev.12 the moon is a footstool
7. In Gen.37 stars are son's of Jacob - In Rev.12 stars are a crown
8. A crown is for ruling - in Gen.37 only one star ruled and the other served
9. Israel cannot be the stars for they (Israel) forfeit rule (Matt.21:43)
10. Israel is in chastisement for idolatry. How could she bring forth saved Israelites?
11. Israel are idolaters. How could they bring forth seed "that has the testimony of Jesus Christ"
12. How could Israel, who is divorced from God, bring forth the Bride of Christ

These 12 points make it impossible for the student of scripture to equate fallen, disowned, divorced and unrepentant Israel with a heavenly Woman. The Woman fits only one other Woman in scripture - New Jerusalem. These are the facts: The Woman is heavenly but on earth. So is New Jerusalem (Rev.21.2). New Jerusalem is a "sign" (She is City, Bride, Wife, Tabernacle and glory of God all at the same time). The Woman brings forth THREE seeds. (i) The Man-child who is the Overcomers (Rev.2:27, 12:5, 11). (ii) Those who have the testimony of Jesus but who are left on earth during the Great Tribulation (12:17). And (iii) those who keep the commandments of God - the Jewish remnant of Deuteronomy 30:1-5 mentioned above. Only in New Jerusalem we see these three again with the Christians as the Walls and Israel as the Gates. And finally, in the Book of Galatians, Israel and the Church are continuously CONTRASTED. In 4:22-26 they are again CONTRASTED, but verse 26 says that though they be so different as Sarah to Hagar, so different as bondage is to freedom, NEVERTHELESS Jerusalem ABOVE is Mother us ALL (both parties).

I respectfully propose that the Woman of Revelation Chapter 12 is New Jerusalem before she is consummated - or perfected in Revelation 21 and 22.

I will leave off here because long posts are not read. Go well bro - and God bless.

Israel never travailed in the birth of 144,000

The beast is not one man or one empire. neither is the false prophet just one man or one religious insitution.

The beast and false prophet are a repeating attack strategy that the demonic powers have and will continue to use to deceive and control the world until Christ Returns.

One example of this is the Islamic State. This is where Islam (false prophet) and government (beast) are intertwined. Saudi Arabia has a King (Beast) who appoints the most senior and influential religious leader called the Grand Mufti (false prophet). Iran has a supreme religious leader (false prophet) who appoints the government (beast)

In general the beast and false prophet work in tandem. But what this verse is telling us is that there will be a period of time where the beast will not exist and the false prophet will work to deceive without the force and oppression of the beast.

One example today where the beast is not is with the secular Islamic country of Turkey which has/had a secular democratic government and therefore for a time the Beast was not in Turkey. The false prophet of Islam has always remained in Turkey though. Today, however, Their leader Erdogon is becoming like a king (beast) as he is moving Turkey back toward becoming like an authoritarian Islamic State. Thus the beast is yet to come.

Anyone follow?

The beast is a metaphor, and so "his body" can also be a metaphor.

Biblical Prophesy is testimony without witness. No man can understand biblical prophesy until they match it correctly with the testimony of a 2nd witness. The 2nd witness is the historical record. The whole of God's Word works on witness and testimony from at least two sources. Your future predictions are just speculations because they lack a 2nd witness or testimony. Therefore, they are not to be trusted.

Hello DWR! Don't be sad. If you disagree with any of the truths that I have listed above, I would be happy to go over them with you and explain the reasoning in detail using all the relevant scriptures.

That doesn't make sense. When the prophecy is written and not yet fulfilled, your rule would make it invalid. And don't argue that all prophecy has been fulfilled because it's certainly has not been fulfilled, for Israel has not yet received her Messiah.

for Israel has not yet received her Messiah.