Not By Works

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EleventhHour

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OIC1965 said:
I agree that election and predestination are biblical. I hope everyone here can agree with that. They are in scripture.

Are people saying God has no part in our faith or ability to believe?
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Again define your terms?
 
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EleventhHour

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OIC1965 said:
Actually there is a dichotomy, because the two are very different, but what I said was not a false dichotomy, because I never presented them as either or and I never presented them as the only two options.
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Yes there is dichotomy, however my response was with regards to this post
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4379145
where only two options are presented.

There are other churches that are neither reformed or "liberal" whatever that means.
 
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OIC1965

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EleventhHour said:
Again define your terms?
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A. Election. God’s choice of individuals.

B. Predestination- the act of determining beforehand. I.e. God has predetermined that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

C. Faith. Belief in the Gospel and trust in Jesus for salvation.

D. Ability to believe. The capacity to believe the gospel and trust Jesus from the heart, (the inner man).
 
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OIC1965

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EleventhHour said:
Yes there is dichotomy, however my response was with regards to this post
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4379145
where only two options are presented.

There are other churches that are neither reformed or "liberal" whatever that means.
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I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
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EleventhHour

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OIC1965 said:
I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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I had responded to @cv5 so I do not know i am confused as well.. not important really.
 
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OIC1965

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OIC1965 said:
Do you think only Calvinists believe this?
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The Bible teaches chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. The chosen part is not really in question. It is the meaning of what foreknowledge means that is the point of disagreement among most Christians. At least, that is what I see.
 
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EleventhHour

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OIC1965 said:
The Bible teaches chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. The chosen part is not really in question. It is the meaning of what foreknowledge means that is the point of disagreement among most Christians. At least, that is what I see.
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"Chosen" is actually the question, I think..

What does that mean to be chosen?
 
cv5

cv5

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OIC1965 said:
I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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"I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed".
Everyone who had their wits about them understood what you meant.
This false dichotomy businesses just another red herring.
 
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OIC1965

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disclaimer. I do not claim to have all the answers. I am wrestling with this myself, and it’s not always comfortable. I am not trying to present a view on this, basically I’m giving bits and pieces of what I know

I confess that I have not connected all the dots yet.
 
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OIC1965

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cv5 said:
"I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed".
Everyone who had their wits about them understood what you meant.
This false dichotomy businesses just another red herring.
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It was my mistake. She wasn’t addressing me. I haven’t gone back and read what she was responding to. I just saw it wasn’t a reply to me. My mistake.

But I think we shouldn’t put labels on people. It’s better to address the arguments biblically and avoid categories. I am speaking to myself as well.
 
cv5

cv5

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EleventhHour said:
A person who believes that tenet has incorporated "reformed theology (Calvinism) into their beliefs.
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The realistic, orthodox and scriptural supported alternatives to "reformed theology" are rarer than hens teeth.

That, you see, is your problem.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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OIC1965 said:
2 Thessalonians 2:13. Chosen for salvation.2:14. Chosen before called.

This is pretty clear. The misunderstanding is how people define foreknowledge.
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When is the chosen begins in this passage? Thanks
 
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