Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#148,801
#148,801
OIC1965 said:
I agree that election and predestination are biblical. I hope everyone here can agree with that. They are in scripture.

Are people saying God has no part in our faith or ability to believe?
Click to expand...
Again define your terms?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#148,802
#148,802
OIC1965 said:
Actually there is a dichotomy, because the two are very different, but what I said was not a false dichotomy, because I never presented them as either or and I never presented them as the only two options.
Click to expand...
Yes there is dichotomy, however my response was with regards to this post
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4379145
where only two options are presented.

There are other churches that are neither reformed or "liberal" whatever that means.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#148,803
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#148,803
EleventhHour said:
Again define your terms?
Click to expand...
A. Election. God’s choice of individuals.

B. Predestination- the act of determining beforehand. I.e. God has predetermined that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

C. Faith. Belief in the Gospel and trust in Jesus for salvation.

D. Ability to believe. The capacity to believe the gospel and trust Jesus from the heart, (the inner man).
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#148,805
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#148,805
EleventhHour said:
Yes there is dichotomy, however my response was with regards to this post
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4379145
where only two options are presented.

There are other churches that are neither reformed or "liberal" whatever that means.
Click to expand...
I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#148,807
#148,807
OIC1965 said:
I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
I had responded to @cv5 so I do not know i am confused as well.. not important really.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#148,811
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#148,811
OIC1965 said:
Do you think only Calvinists believe this?
Click to expand...
The Bible teaches chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. The chosen part is not really in question. It is the meaning of what foreknowledge means that is the point of disagreement among most Christians. At least, that is what I see.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#148,812
#148,812
OIC1965 said:
The Bible teaches chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. The chosen part is not really in question. It is the meaning of what foreknowledge means that is the point of disagreement among most Christians. At least, that is what I see.
Click to expand...
"Chosen" is actually the question, I think..

What does that mean to be chosen?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#148,816
Nov 20, 2018
18,439
7,253
113
#148,816
OIC1965 said:
I never said otherwise. What I said is that a certain group that I said I won’t mention is both conservative and evangelical

. That is as far removed from what I said as you can possibly get.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
"I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed".
Everyone who had their wits about them understood what you meant.
This false dichotomy businesses just another red herring.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#148,817
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#148,817
disclaimer. I do not claim to have all the answers. I am wrestling with this myself, and it’s not always comfortable. I am not trying to present a view on this, basically I’m giving bits and pieces of what I know

I confess that I have not connected all the dots yet.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#148,818
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#148,818
cv5 said:
"I never said all churches are either liberal or reformed".
Everyone who had their wits about them understood what you meant.
This false dichotomy businesses just another red herring.
Click to expand...
It was my mistake. She wasn’t addressing me. I haven’t gone back and read what she was responding to. I just saw it wasn’t a reply to me. My mistake.

But I think we shouldn’t put labels on people. It’s better to address the arguments biblically and avoid categories. I am speaking to myself as well.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#148,819
Nov 20, 2018
18,439
7,253
113
#148,819
EleventhHour said:
A person who believes that tenet has incorporated "reformed theology (Calvinism) into their beliefs.
Click to expand...
The realistic, orthodox and scriptural supported alternatives to "reformed theology" are rarer than hens teeth.

That, you see, is your problem.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#148,820
Nov 17, 2015
3,995
927
113
#148,820
OIC1965 said:
2 Thessalonians 2:13. Chosen for salvation.2:14. Chosen before called.

This is pretty clear. The misunderstanding is how people define foreknowledge.
Click to expand...
When is the chosen begins in this passage? Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.