Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

Since every sin you and I and every Christian since Christ died was in the future, and all sin has been paid for and forgiven, there is nothing left to ask forgiveness for.

1 John 5:16-17 doesn't mention asking God to forgive any such sin, it's speaking of sparing a brother the results of sins resulting in physical death, not spiritual death. If is impossible for a believer to experience spiritual death because Christ has given all believers His righteousness and have been made spiritually alive with Christ.

Immediately after the Lord's prayer (verses 14 and 15) Jesus says that if one does not forgive the trespasses of another God will not forgive them. Which, if the prayer was meant for Christians and not simply the Jews, contradicts the very idea of grace and total forgiveness for sin.

If any sin debt is still owed by us, we are doomed. Jesus paid our sin debt ONCE, and never will again.



It's not "hyper" grace - it's simply grace. Unmerited favor. And if you can name me a single instance in the Bible where any born again believer lost their salvation because of sinning, I'll come over to your side.

The above statement is incorrect and seriously in error.

Forgiveness for sins before conversion does not automatically cancel the need to recognize present sins by Christians. The case of Ananias and Sapphira is a clear example of sins being attributed after conversion. And when the apostle John speaks about "the sin unto death" he is addressing Christians, and refers to the sinning person as a "brother" in Christ.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:16,17)

We need to understand that while the penalty for sins was paid fully at the cross (1) there must be repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 3:19), and for those who are already saved, there must be confession and repentance for present sins (1 John 1:6-10). The Lord's Prayer also makes it clear that those who are Christians need to ask forgiveness for present sins.

The false doctrine of Hyper-Grace claims that once a person is saved, there is no need to address present sins. But Paul makes it perfectly clear that Christians must examine themselves, and those who fail to do so may face serious consequences (1 Corinthians 11).

Actually it is the opposite, when we sin we should affirm that sin has already been dealt with at the cross and live in the victory of Christ's completed work.

And have remorse, and have the intention of, to go sin no more.

Under the law ....yes

Under the law ....yes

And have remorse, and have the intention of, to go sin no more.

So, you are literally saying all of your sins weren't paid for on the cross.



Lets them go where?



Forgiveness is a one-time event. There are zero examples in the Bible of anyone, after conversion, having sins still attributed to them. If that were so, Jesus would have to come back and die for those sins. Because the Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. If what you say is true, if one dies without confessing/repenting of sins they committed that day, they would certainly go to hell. God is not going to allow a single person into heaven with a single sin on their record. Not one.

Either they were all paid for and forgiven, or none of them were.

Your understanding of repentance is flawed. When one repents, they have faith in something to begin with, (either their good works, or something else) and now puts their faith in something new. When one turns to Jesus, they have repented from their old faith, and now has a new faith. They have repented from their old confidence, and now has a new confidence. A change of mind from the old to the new. It's a pivot, a 180 degree turn to put their confidence, their faith, their belief, in Jesus Christ.

the gospel is different it’s what the whole Bible witnesses Moses law is not Gods law . It’s an earthly law that governs sinners it’s the Old Testament . The gospel is the law

Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5,KJV‬‬

“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills;

and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:

for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”(luke 24:46-48)
‭‭Micah‬ ‭4:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the mosaic law was given in the desert of sin from Sinai. The gospel is the true Law of God it is of heaven from his throne for the intent of salvation

The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV

....”: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-21, 31-36‬ ‭KJV

“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.



I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him...

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free....

‭‭John‬ ‭8:23-24, 26, 29-32, KJV‬‬

Moses law isn’t about salvation. It cannot provide salvation , it cannot please God. It can only accuse a sinner lsalvarion is of the kingdom the new covenant from heaven

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We didn’t come to a burning terrifying mountain to hear about sin and death , heaven came for us to offer us eternal
Life

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.



..Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-26, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

//the decision to repent and to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of one's life. As soon as a person sincerely does that - he is saved.// This is adding to the simple Gosepl message sadly.

Your making the mistake that David was sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. He was not. Thats why he prayed not to take away the Holy Spirit from him . He would see it come upon only and depart from Saul. There was no forgiveness through the law through what he did . The punishment was death ..But God had mercy on him . Today ( After the cross and the GIVING of the Holy Spirt in Acts 2 ) we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. it is AFTER we are saved that we are predestined to glorification.

I'm very well aware that God's laws, under the New Covenant are different from that of the Old Covenant. And that we are required to obey the New Covenant laws. And to always sincerely repent of all daily sins. If we do that, God forgives our sins. That's how it works, according to the Bible.

Edited due to character limit in my reply. Please understand.

You're going to find a critic for those observations you realize.
They're going to insist Paul never said there were different kinds of sin. That sin was sin.
This of course is not so and we should rebuke such things because they mislead those who may seek understanding of scripture.

Some arrive at that conclusion, Paul taught sin is sin, because they read Romans3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Paul's ministry was informed by the holy spirit. Jesus taught there were different types of sin. Therefore Paul would not go against that were he informed by the sacred spirit that said it first.
John 19:11 Jesus replied, “You would have no authority[ae] over me at all, unless it was given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you[af] is guilty of greater sin.”[ag]
Footnote:
[ae]Or “power.”
[af]Or “who delivered me over to you.”sn The one who handed me over to you appears to be a reference to Judas at first; yet Judas did not deliver Jesus up to Pilate, but to the Jewish authorities. The singular may be a reference to Caiaphas, who as high priest was representative of all the Jewish authorities, or it may be a generic singular referring to all the Jewish authorities directly. In either case the end result is more or less the same.
[ag]Grk “has the greater sin” (an idiom). Because Pilate had no authority over Jesus except what had been given to him from God, the one who handed Jesus over to Pilate was guilty of greater sin. This does not absolve Pilate of guilt; it simply means his guilt was less than those who handed Jesus over to him, because he was not acting against Jesus out of deliberate hatred or calculated malice, like the Jewish religious authorities. These were thereby guilty of greater sin.

Idiom: a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogs, see the light).

• a form of expression natural to a language, person, or group of people
• the dialect of a people or part of a country
• a characteristic mode of expression in music or art.

And also, it is true, the Christian is not perfect once saved. However, our sins, our missing the righteous mark expected of us by God, does not result in the former death and damnation that once awaited the unrepentant, the lost sinner. Rather, those missteps are under the blood of Christ for all time because we have Jesus as our advocate with the father.

I remember when then candidate Trump was asked about his Christian faith. One question pertained to confession of his sins, or asking God to forgive him his sins. He said he didn't ask God to forgive him because he strives not to disappoint God. Not his exact words but near enough.

There are those today who hate Trump and think he is not a Christian and yet I wonder how many of those would say the Christian once saved having repented their sins as a fallen sinner no longer need ask forgiveness for any future sins?
Because that isn't in the scripture.

The repentance isn't to keep our souls saved of course. It is more for us to release our feeling of guilt for having disappointed God with our actions. Being aware we have missed the mark is having a conscious awareness of the difference between sin and righteousness.

Hebrews 12:7 Endure your suffering[h] as discipline;[i] God is treating you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline? 8 But if you do not experience discipline,[j] something all sons[k] have shared in, then you are illegitimate and are not sons. 9 Besides, we have experienced discipline from[l] our earthly fathers[m] and we respected them; shall we not submit ourselves all the more to the Father of spirits and receive life?[n] 10 For they disciplined us for a little while as seemed good to them, but he does so for our benefit, that we may share his holiness. 11 Now all discipline seems painful at the time, not joyful.[o] But later it produces the fruit of peace and righteousness[p] for those trained by it. 12 Therefore, strengthen[q] your listless hands and your weak knees,[r] 13 and make straight paths for your feet,[s] so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but be healed.

2 Samuel 12:13Then David exclaimed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord!” Nathan replied to David, “Yes, and the Lord has forgiven[y] your sin. You are not going to die. 14 Nonetheless, because you have treated the Lord with such contempt[z] in this matter, the son who has been born to you will certainly die.”
15 Then Nathan went to his home. The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and the child became very ill.[aa] 16 Then David prayed to[ab] God for the child and fasted.[ac] He would even[ad] go and spend the night lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood over him and tried to lift him from the ground, but he was unwilling, and refused to eat food with them.

David knows that his son's condition was brought upon him by the Lord as punishment against David for his unrepentant sin with Bathsheba. David prays for the Lord to show mercy instead. The Scripture says plainly that David's sin has already been taken away by his faith, so salvation was not in question. Nonetheless, David feels the need to pray for forgiveness, because he wishes to save his son.

The Christian who feels led to repent of wrong doing due to the leading of their conscience is not wrong in doing so.
It is a relationship not a religion. If someone feels led to repent of a sin they believe they have committed as one who is in Christ, do so. God knows all things, is Omniscient. You're not doing this to make God aware. Rather, you're doing this to make yourself feel release from having disappointed God with your behavior(s). Or , whatever reason you feel led to repent.
It's personal.
Never let anyone's personal opinion against that, because it isn't supported by scripture, lead you to do anything less if you feel led to repent. God sees them too.

Since every sin you and I and every Christian since Christ died was in the future, and all sin has been paid for and forgiven, there is nothing left to ask forgiveness for.

1 John 5:16-17 doesn't mention asking God to forgive any such sin, it's speaking of sparing a brother the results of sins resulting in physical death, not spiritual death. If is impossible for a believer to experience spiritual death because Christ has given all believers His righteousness and have been made spiritually alive with Christ.

Immediately after the Lord's prayer (verses 14 and 15) Jesus says that if one does not forgive the trespasses of another God will not forgive them. Which, if the prayer was meant for Christians and not simply the Jews, contradicts the very idea of grace and total forgiveness for sin.

If any sin debt is still owed by us, we are doomed. Jesus paid our sin debt ONCE, and never will again.



It's not "hyper" grace - it's simply grace. Unmerited favor. And if you can name me a single instance in the Bible where any born again believer lost their salvation because of sinning, I'll come over to your side.

what do you make of being born again ? Do you think that the gospel is able to change the core in us that causes us to sin ?

is there anything in the gospel that can set us free from sins dominion over us ? Can we change through the gospel ? Or rather can faith change us through the gospel?

or do we remai the same and just continue to ask forgiveness ?

Yes. We are made new creations when we believe. We are able to put off the old man and put on the new. Put to death he deeds of the flesh. This leads to a fuller more fruitful life in Christ.

Yes. We are made new creations when we believe. We are able to put off the old man and put on the new. Put to death he deeds of the flesh. This leads to a fuller more fruitful life in Christ.

Ps. But I do not believe that any of us have reached the point where we come close to what we ought to be, and if our salvation or preservation was based on how we perform, we would all be without hope.

So we are initially, always, and only ever saved by Grace through faith alone.

grave can easily be changed when we remove the lords word.

yea we’re saved by grace , that’s not everything it’s a summary it has no understanding of what grace is .

we are saved no by grace alone but by grace through obedience .Faith comes from what God said that’s the only place it can come from .

in the Bible there are two distinct forms of grace taught one is the grave of God that teaches us repentance and righteousness through the gospel . A

The other Grace taught about is a distortion of grace by false teachings this grave omits what God said through Christ and claims salvation . This grace requires that truth is cast aside in favor pf. The term “ grace” so you have grace and truth which came by Christ and looks like this and saves

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s Gods Grace it doesn’t hide from the teachings it doesn’t argue that repentance isn’t necessary , doesn’t omit the word of God but like Noah was saved by grace he still heard the instructions given of God and did what God said would save him so he was saved by grace through faith.

grave can easily be changed when we remove the lords word.

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4 ‭KJV‬‬

that happens through false teachings about the gospel

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭

just like eve was and then adam and so
On . The effects of this on the church is devastating

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know how so
Many grace alone believers hate the message Jesus taught about repentance , about eternal judgement , all of the true teachings of God ? The things were meant to believe and walk in ? It’s because of so many false and variance of ideas about what God said and what is needed

Jesus is the one who has all the answers it’s why he sent the gospel into the world so we can believe the truth and be saved even though there are a hundred fraudulent versions of the gospel , there is still the one true Gospel that offers eternal
Life in Gods kingdom we need to simply let the gospel form our beliefs and know the truth