PREVENIENT GRACE: AN ARMINIAN ERROR

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#21
Why would he call them foolish and slow to believe. Today its faith not by sight but by hearing the word of God . He marvels at their unbelief in other places. This shows an expectation given the signs and them already following the Father. The sheep ( Jews ) The Sheep ( Jews) the ones he only came for during his earthly ministry. He said he would be lifted up attract ( draw ) all men unto him . This through him being the light of the world . His inspired apostles, the Holy Spirit , The Holy Spirit wrought Word of God . The Gospel .
Foolish right off the bat means that they don't believe in God. Psalm 14 v 1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. KJV. And in the sermon on the mount he teaches Matt 5:22...
"whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." because we don't have the understanding or knowledge to make that kind of judgment call. Jews? Please, when he crossed the sea of Galilee from Nazareth and fed the multitude he was most likely in Jordan. That land belonged to Gentiles. Yes it was Passover but us Gentiles love any excuse to have a party. He didn't just feed Jews, He fed everybody, about 5,000 (It's in all four Gospels) After he grounded and blinded Saul of Tarsus Saul became Paul Apostle to The Gentiles. And Yes he's still the light of the world, not just Israel.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#22
Strange bedfellows , Arminianism and Calvinism.
“Total Inability” is the belief that all humanity is born incapable of willingly coming to Christ for salvation even in light of the Holy Spirit wrought truth of the Gospel, unless God graciously works to empower the will of lost man (effectually by way of regeneration for the Calvinist, and sufficiently by way of “prevenient grace” for the Arminian).

“Prevenient grace” is simply a term for the grace of God that goes before, prepares the way, enables, assists the sinner’s repentance and faith (conversion). According to classical Calvinism this prevenient grace is always efficacious and given only to the elect through the gospel; it effects conversion. According to classical Arminianism it is an operation of the Holy Spirit that frees the sinner’s will from bondage to sin and convicts, calls, illumines and enables the sinner to respond to the gospel call with repentance and faith (conversion). Calvinists and Arminians agree, against Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism, that the sinner’s will is so depraved and bound to sin that it cannot respond positively to the gospel call without supernatural grace
Roger Olson.

.
However the scriptures say different .
Dr. Olson makes the same fundamental error of our Calvinistic brethren by assuming one’s bondage to sin equals a moral incapacity to humble himself and confess this bondage in light of the truth plainly made known by the gospel. As far as I can tell, this is never taught in scripture but is merely theological baggage presumed upon the text.

In contrast to Olson, I would contend that it is by the means of the Holy Spirit inspired gospel that God directly works within man’s hearts prior to their acceptance and/or rejection of the appeal made by that gospel. In fact, I believe that is what the scripture is contending when it says:

Heb 4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 tim 3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16¶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Rom 10.17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
John 6
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Is another work of divine grace, besides that which the gospel accomplishes, needed to enable the lost to respond?

“…these [scriptures] have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”

Must we muddy the waters by suggesting that God, at some unknown point in the life of everyone, has to move in some other gracious way to enable all people to respond to the already gracious, powerful, Holy Spirit wrought truth of the gospel? What text necessitates such complex theological explanations? Why create a redundant theological term when the biblical word is more than sufficient? The GOSPEL is God’s enabling grace and the ONLY reason some do not have “ears to hear” is if they have become blinded or calloused against it because they have continually closed their eyes to the truth (John 12:39-41; Acts 28:23-28). There is nothing in scripture, as far as I can tell, which suggests men are born in such condition that would prevent them from responding to “the double edge sword” of the Holy Spirit’s soul piercing gospel truth (Heb. 4:12).

What say you ?

Excerpts taken from soteriology 101 .
You really do not like Calvinism do you? I may not agree with a lot of their doctrines but I have seen you contesting against this a lot and then to make an entire thread about it?
Also just so you know it wasn't the gospel or the spirit that brought me to seek God, I knew about him but my family never went to church in fact the way my family family treated me is what brought me to cry out to him I had a general idea of who he was and just wanted to know what it was like to be loved and took me getting to my very worst where I saw my entire life as trash and myself as trash I didn't expect him to answer me but he did
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#23
You really do not like Calvinism do you? I may not agree with a lot of their doctrines but I have seen you contesting against this a lot and then to make an entire thread about it?
Also just so you know it wasn't the gospel or the spirit that brought me to seek God, I knew about him but my family never went to church in fact the way my family family treated me is what brought me to cry out to him I had a general idea of who he was and just wanted to know what it was like to be loved and took me getting to my very worst where I saw my entire life as trash and myself as trash I didn't expect him to answer me but he did
This is about Arminianism.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#24
Foolish right off the bat means that they don't believe in God. Psalm 14 v 1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. KJV. And in the sermon on the mount he teaches Matt 5:22...
"whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." because we don't have the understanding or knowledge to make that kind of judgment call. Jews? Please, when he crossed the sea of Galilee from Nazareth and fed the multitude he was most likely in Jordan. That land belonged to Gentiles. Yes it was Passover but us Gentiles love any excuse to have a party. He didn't just feed Jews, He fed everybody, about 5,000 (It's in all four Gospels) After he grounded and blinded Saul of Tarsus Saul became Paul Apostle to The Gentiles. And Yes he's still the light of the world, not just Israel.
Mat 10
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 15
24¶But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And still 10 years after Acts 2.
Acts 11


19¶Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#25
Foolish right off the bat means that they don't believe in God. Psalm 14 v 1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. KJV. And in the sermon on the mount he teaches Matt 5:22...
"whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." because we don't have the understanding or knowledge to make that kind of judgment call. Jews? Please, when he crossed the sea of Galilee from Nazareth and fed the multitude he was most likely in Jordan. That land belonged to Gentiles. Yes it was Passover but us Gentiles love any excuse to have a party. He didn't just feed Jews, He fed everybody, about 5,000 (It's in all four Gospels) After he grounded and blinded Saul of Tarsus Saul became Paul Apostle to The Gentiles. And Yes he's still the light of the world, not just Israel.
Its Acts 11 . 10 years after Acts 2 that gentiles are now granted repentance.

Acts 11.18
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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113
Anaheim, Cali.
#26
It is Spiritual sight which is superior and necessary, and I already mentioned that.

You are not born with it. You are born dead to God. The need is to be born again. You don't do that of yourself, either.

I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of Go
Its an assumption without validation that we are born unable to respond to the Holy Spirit wrought word of God .
This is getting rediculos. Yahweh is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God, It's not that hard to figure out and God can do anything he wants because he's God. he created the universe made us, parted the red sea, and made a jackass talk. If hes can raise the rotten stinking corpse of Lazarus of course He can give us a new soul. He made the rules for us to follow and He can do whatever He wants because He's still God. He is far beyond our measly little comprehension. You sound like a dragon fly trying to explain a 747. Just praise God.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#27
Mat 10
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 15
24¶But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And still 10 years after Acts 2.
Acts 11


19¶Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Why did he send Paul to the Gentiles then?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#28
This is getting rediculos. Yahweh is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God, It's not that hard to figure out and God can do anything he wants because he's God. he created the universe made us, parted the red sea, and made a jackass talk. If hes can raise the rotten stinking corpse of Lazarus of course He can give us a new soul. He made the rules for us to follow and He can do whatever He wants because He's still God. He is far beyond our measly little comprehension. You sound like a dragon fly trying to explain a 747. Just praise God.
How is that relevant response to what i said ?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#29
Its Acts 11 . 10 years after Acts 2 that gentiles are now granted repentance.

Acts 11.18
18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Now your right.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#31

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#34
Yes but it also about Calvinism Arminianism is a direct reaction to Calvinism it actually began with a man named Jacobus Arminius in 1603
I never studied any 'isims' except Catholicism about a half century ago. I started studying the Bible for myself, mainly by myself, in 1977. So I will repute any isims, that I believe contradicts the Gospel of Truth.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#35
I never studied any 'isims' except Catholicism about a half century ago. I started studying the Bible for myself, mainly by myself, in 1977. So I will repute any isims, that I believe contradicts the Gospel of Truth.
calibobism?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#36
I never studied any 'isims' except Catholicism about a half century ago. I started studying the Bible for myself, mainly by myself, in 1977. So I will repute any isims, that I believe contradicts the Gospel of Truth.
Isms are just man made ways to dissect God's word to interpret how they want it speak it's same how people cherry pick verses to do the same thing which is why again I always put importance on the context meaning and placing of words we have to look at the bible as a whole like a painting if you only pick one part of the painting you fail to see the entire picture if you cherry pick which parts of the painting you like and disregard the others you don't have a picture at all
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#37
Because it appeared like you were trying to justify a false belief that Jesus only came to save the Jews. "Go not the way of the gentiles in 1611. Means “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. today and 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.… Would indicate to me; Give my people who have sinned the first chance (to be saved)
There's no ministry to Gentiles until 10 years after Acts 2 . I'm a gentile so of course we are included. AFTER israel s temporary rejection. We are grated IN .