PREVENIENT GRACE: AN ARMINIAN ERROR

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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#41
Oct 7, 2020
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#41
calibob said:
Why did he send Paul to the Gentiles then?
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The lost sheep of the house of Israel consists of Judah the Jews, and Ephraim scattered among the Gentiles.


Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."


John 11 (ESV)

47 So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said, "What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they made plans to put him to death. 54 Jesus therefore no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there to the region near the wilderness, to a town called Ephraim, and there he stayed with the disciples.
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#44
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#44
"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Do you believe it is our solemn duty to share the word, to all people, so many people can and will be saved?
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#45
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
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#45
calibob said:
Actually now I've discovered that Mennonites pretty much believe almost exactly the same as I do. So if some asks that's what I tell them.
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I saw on your profile, you say you're a "modern day Mennonite". For interest sake, in your views what differentiation primarily defines Mennonitism? I do not hope someone following some ..isms of their own comes over to strongly in rejection thereof, when it's defined...
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#47
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
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#47
throughfaith said:
Calvinism origin is Augustine.
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Yes and? Although I do like how he viewed the church as a spiritual city of God it reminds me of the of the song city on a hill I love that song
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#48
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
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#48
Blain said:
Naw that would mean everyone would have to believe that kitty cats are the best and most adorable animals in existance
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If I ever become a mod on here this is going to be my avatar
mod kitten.jpg
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#49
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
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#49
calibob said:
"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Do you believe it is our solemn duty to share the word, to all people, so many people can and will be saved?
Click to expand...
I do, some Khoisan's descent in Africa, for example, like myself, may be a scattered Ephraimite-Israelite among the Gentiles. Judah/Jews are hardened until the fulness of Ephraim/Gentiles are reached, and in this way all Israel, and only Israel' lost sheep by blood or adoption (Judah/Jews & Ephraim/Gentiles) will be saved.


Romans 11 (ESV)
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."


Genesis 48 (Young's Literal Translation)

17 And Joseph seeth that his father setteth his right hand on the head of Ephraim, and it is wrong in his eyes, and he supporteth the hand of his father to turn it aside from off the head of Ephraim to the head of Manasseh; 18 and Joseph saith unto his father, `Not so, my father, for this [is] the first-born; set thy right hand on his head.' 19 And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;' / Gentiles
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#50
Oct 7, 2020
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#50
Corban said:
Grammar takes precedent. It is a Law of language. Without it, language cannot accurately transmit ideas. But is the context against FAITH being a GIFT? Ephesians Chapter 1 has;

2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ - GIFTS
3 God... who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 God ... hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, ...
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 ... his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
...
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

Are these not all the above GIFTS? The context of Ephesians 1 is a God Who supplies His things to His People for His PURPOSES!
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Agreed totally. I find total comfort in knowing my faith is an eternal gift of God. This would be contrary to my own beliefs, that would be subject to change, if what I believe today, is not grounded in my eternal gifted attribute of faith, as received from God. Gifts don't get to be asked back from the recipient, nor given away by the recipient.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#51
Jul 3, 2015
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#51
throughfaith said:
Its an assumption without validation that we are born unable to respond to the Holy Spirit wrought word of God .
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That is not the assumption.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Ephesians 2:1-3

even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive
together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Ephesians 2:5

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead
will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. John 5:25

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

Colossians 2:11-15 In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#52
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
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#52
BenjaminN said:
Agreed totally. I find total comfort in knowing my faith is an eternal gift of God. This would be contrary to my own beliefs, that would be subject to change, if what I believe today, is not grounded in my eternal gifted attribute of faith, as received from God. Gifts don't get to be asked back, or given away.
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#53
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#53
calibob said:
In order to save whom? The gentiles. Why? Well they weren't lost because they weren't trying to find the way.
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Blain said:
Yes and? Although I do like how he viewed the church as a spiritual city of God it reminds me of the of the song city on a hill I love that song
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Then go back further to see what he reverted back to to argue against palagius. His manachian gnosticism. Determinism .
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#54
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#54
Magenta said:
That is not the assumption.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Ephesians 2:1-3

even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive
together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Ephesians 2:5

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead
will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. John 5:25

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

Colossians 2:11-15 In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Click to expand...
There's nothing there about being unable to believe the Gospel when presented ?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#55
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#55
calibob said:
"you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Do you believe it is our solemn duty to share the word, to all people, so many people can and will be saved?
Click to expand...
" You will be witnesses to those Jews in Jerusalem , in all judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.
 
B

BenjaminN

Well-known member
#56
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#56
throughfaith said:
There's nothing there about being unable to believe the Gospel when presented ?
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I believe
I have faith

Believe is a verb
Faith is not a verb

Believe is a work
Faith is not a work
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#57
Jul 3, 2015
55,890
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#57
throughfaith said:
There's nothing there about being unable to believe the Gospel when presented ?
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Open your eyes to the fact that it is the power of God through the circumcision of our flesh that gives us a new heart capable of choosing God. Man, do you really miss that, when it is so clearly spelled out in the verses I presented?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#58
Aug 4, 2020
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#58
BenjaminN said:
Agreed totally. I find total comfort in knowing my faith is an eternal gift of God. This would be contrary to my own beliefs, that would be subject to change, if what I believe today, is not grounded in my eternal gifted attribute of faith, as received from God. Gifts don't get to be asked back from the recipient, nor given away by the recipient.
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Then God is not pleased. 1 cor 1 .21 .
Rom 4
5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#59
Aug 4, 2020
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#59
Magenta said:
Open your eyes to the fact that it is the power of God through the circumcision of our flesh that gives us a new heart capable of choosing God. Man, do you really miss that?
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So you hold to ' regeneration precedes faith " aka Calvinism?
 
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BenjaminN

Well-known member
#60
Oct 7, 2020
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#60
throughfaith said:
" You will be witnesses to those Jews in Jerusalem , in all judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.
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throughfaithism?

Revelation 22 (ESV)

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
 
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