PREVENIENT GRACE: AN ARMINIAN ERROR

Cart before the horse there . God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

1 Corinthians 1 (ESV)

21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

Sure. We are Anabaptists first of all, neither Catholic or Protestant.
We believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the one and only son of God.
We believe his willing sacrifice on a cross at Calvary paid for all of our sins.
We believe that if a person desires to be saved and believes in Jesus paid the price in full. believe in their hearts and cofess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord they will be saved (aka born again).
We believe that after they decide to follow the Lord they should be baptized in water as an outward sign that their sins are washed away. and also comming out of the water symbolizes being born again.
I myself personally believe that Baptisms should be done in public so both believers and non believers can see.
We believe that God has and is the final authority, In case of a conflict between the word of God,
and the laws of men, we must obey the word of God.
We believe in basic pacifism however there is nothing wrong with defending ourselves, loved ones, and or property.
We believe a each of reserves the right to consciously object to military service. (we may chose to serve but it's not required.)
Fyi; that's why we got kicked out of Europe and in trouble with King James.

That's off the top of my head, in my own words.

" This book "

Well we must come to believe. First.

you gotta love these modern translations . Like God is pleased with his foolish Gospel message ? Dear oh dear 😳 .

Kjv
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I would appreciate it if you would not use scripture to speak for God based on your own views the word of God is holy and sacred and is not to be used in such a manner

New heart ? Do you have a verse that specifically says " were given a ' new heart ' " That doesn't have Israel attached to it ?

I have read your answers above. I understand your position. But to me, the grammar is clear. The translators of the Bible, especially the King James, were masters of language, and under extreme peer pressure. The "gift" modifies the last mentioned noun - "faith". Added to this, our Lord Jesus is the "AUTHOR" of our faith. This in no way weakens the fact that faith comes from hearing. Whether my birthday gift comes by surface mail or airmail, it is still by birthday gift.

In the matter of Peter's vision, you failed to answer my argument. Flesh and blood cannot reveal the Lord Jesus. This is an emphatic statement and no exceptions are given. So also John 6:44;

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

I'm afraid you'll just have to consider prevenient grace. That does not mean that you adhere to Arminius. Just because I believe in a Rapture does not mean I adhere to Darby. Let's deal with specific points and not lump them under some title.

Thorogoodism would be more fun. Glug, glug, ZZzzz.

The similarities between calvinism and Arminsim are brought to the surface on the shared theology on the T leading to Previeniant Grace .

Romans 10 (ESV)

6 But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Faith is, or faith is not there - it is not attained by oneself - it is the gift of God of salvation by grace through faith. That we may belief the gospel, follows our inheritance of faith.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,


1 Corinthians 1 (ESV)

21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

Regardless of any ism the only thing I know is that I was drawn to him I believed in him enough to beg him to come into my life and upon recieving him I then had faith in him
Personally I don't really understand regeneration I only found it once in scripture and it is linked with the holy spirrit and salvation it is also defined as born again so I don't really know why it is separated from being saved but perhaps I am just naive in this

Sorry buddy I am going to kind of pgy back off your reply here I didn't see his post on that . @throughfaith I am actually shocked you even asked that did you not recieve a new heart when you were saved?

John 6 (ESV)

40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." 41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42 They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?" 43 Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Agreed in all points. Let's enjoy the moment brother.

Fore sure, it does not happen every day brother.

The oversight is your missing the timeline. John 12 . 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.,
John 16.8 ,9
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 1.9 .

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 20.29

29¶Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Are all after Mathew 16 , John 6 ect .
And ask your self HOW was this revealed to Peter. Peter SAW Jesus. He Actually SAW things specifically happen. Things the Appostles HEARD , SAW ,EXPERIENCED BY SIGHT .
WE come much later . We are not Peter and the apostles. Its not the time of Mathew 16 or John 6 . A great deal happened after that . Namely the greatest event in the entire history of the cosmos .

16¶For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19¶We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Yep exactly it's really that simple I don't understand why man kind has complicate things it's a simple formula