The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
#21
This is wrong, this is a fatalistic view of theology, which is incorrect,

jesus died for all. Only the elect will be saved, because this is the will of God, that all who sees and believes will have eternal life
Sorry He died only for the elect, and only the elect shall be saved.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
#22
Prove it in the passage, show in the passage where Jesus tells nicodemus it is only his sheep.

otherwise, I will have to continue to believe as I always have,
I dont know what Jesus told nicodemus off record, neither do you. But on record is the fact that Jesus specifically stated who He was to die for, the Sheep Jn 10:11,15. And they shall believe. Now if anyone doesnt ever believe, its because they were not of His Sheep which He clearly stated He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So quite naturally the believing ones in Jn 3 16 are His Sheep.

And also this thread is about those Christ died for , their Salvation is effected by His death. You know all wont be saved, unless you believe in the false teaching of universalism.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
#23
More Calvinistic nonsense that has already been debunked. You will see that in Calvin's actual Bible commentaries, he had no choice except to confirm that Christ died for all mankind. But in spite of that he perverted the Gospel, And that is exactly what you are up to. This is called "another gospel" by Paul.
You want to call truth nonsense ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25
I dont know what Jesus told nicodemus off record, neither do you. But on record is the fact that Jesus specifically stated who He was to die for, the Sheep Jn 10:11,15. And they shall believe. Now if anyone doesnt ever believe, its because they were not of His Sheep which He clearly stated He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So quite naturally the believing ones in Jn 3 16 are His Sheep.

And also this thread is about those Christ died for , their Salvation is effected by His death. You know all wont be saved, unless you believe in the false teaching of universalism.
Again your view

jesus who is willing that non should perish but all should come to eternal life

using lack of belief to show who Jesus died for does not compute, he died for all, however only those who believe will be saved

again, your bringing your fatalistic view here, let’s talk about Gods unfailing love. Not his pointed love and unfair redemption
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
#27
The word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is the word hagiazō and means:

to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin


The Death of Christ has freed them He died for from the guilt of sin. It also agrees with Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
The word purged is the word katharismos:

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So cleansing from and freedom from the guilt of sin is automatically a saving result of the death of Christ ! 6
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#28
New covenant. Same proof text as yours, Galatians 3:29. I'll add Ephesians as well:

Ephesians 2:12-17

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

We are part of the New Covenant, it was made with Israel but by faith we are included. No covenant has ever been made with Gentiles outside of the one made with Noah, and every human is automatically part of that whether they want it or not, and its got nothing to do with salvation.
First, Galatians 3:29 does not say we are made partners in the New Covenant. It says that we are made heirs to the Covenant of PROMISE made 430 years before that of Law. This was not made with Israel, but Abraham and his SEED. There are three "seeds" promised to Abraham:
  1. Christ (Gal.3:16)
  2. Seed as the sand of the sea-shore - earthly - Israel
  3. Seed as the stars of heaven - heavenly - the Church (Heb.3:1)
It pointedly says that we are seed NOT BY BEING Israelites, but by being Christ's. This refers to John 12:24 were we are the many seeds that came out of Christ by the New Birth. But by virtue of Christ being the Chief Seed of Abraham, we who are IN Him become eligible to inherit the world (Rom.4:13). Abraham was never ever an Israelite - but a Gentile - a Syrian.

Second, Ephesians 2 does not, at any time say that we become Israelites. It pointedly annuls this notion by the use of the word "COMMONWEALTH". A "Commonwealth" is not one nation. It is the enjoyment of common good for multiple nations under a sovereign or government. A New Zealander does not become a Brit because he is in the Commonwealth. But he is eligible for the privileges that come from Her Majesty. The "Common" - "wealth" of British Colonies does not make a Nigerian a Scot.

Third, there is not a single case of a believer becoming an Israelite. It would be impossible since the believer is a "New Creature" and old things have passed away (2nd Cor.5:17). This includes ethnicity (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11). Israel and the Church remain separate throughout the New Testament into all eternity. The Church are the walls of New Jerusalem while Israel are the Gates.
 

Kolistus

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
#29
First, Galatians 3:29 does not say we are made partners in the New Covenant. It says that we are made heirs to the Covenant of PROMISE made 430 years before that of Law. This was not made with Israel, but Abraham and his SEED. There are three "seeds" promised to Abraham:
  1. Christ (Gal.3:16)
  2. Seed as the sand of the sea-shore - earthly - Israel
  3. Seed as the stars of heaven - heavenly - the Church (Heb.3:1)
It pointedly says that we are seed NOT BY BEING Israelites, but by being Christ's. This refers to John 12:24 were we are the many seeds that came out of Christ by the New Birth. But by virtue of Christ being the Chief Seed of Abraham, we who are IN Him become eligible to inherit the world (Rom.4:13). Abraham was never ever an Israelite - but a Gentile - a Syrian.

Second, Ephesians 2 does not, at any time say that we become Israelites. It pointedly annuls this notion by the use of the word "COMMONWEALTH". A "Commonwealth" is not one nation. It is the enjoyment of common good for multiple nations under a sovereign or government. A New Zealander does not become a Brit because he is in the Commonwealth. But he is eligible for the privileges that come from Her Majesty. The "Common" - "wealth" of British Colonies does not make a Nigerian a Scot.

Third, there is not a single case of a believer becoming an Israelite. It would be impossible since the believer is a "New Creature" and old things have passed away (2nd Cor.5:17). This includes ethnicity (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11). Israel and the Church remain separate throughout the New Testament into all eternity. The Church are the walls of New Jerusalem while Israel are the Gates.
I disagree completely. Church and Israel will not be separate for eternity, God will have one people. One flock and one shepherd. This idea could be problematic when evangelizing Jews, as you are basically saying they are no longer israelites but the church? Or if they are still israelites, are they not the Church? hmm
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#30
I disagree completely. Church and Israel will not be separate for eternity, God will have one people. One flock and one shepherd. This idea could be problematic when evangelizing Jews, as you are basically saying they are no longer israelites but the church? Or if they are still israelites, are they not the Church? hmm
Not I, am saying that the New Man has no ethnicity, but the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 2:15, 2nd Corinthians 5:17 and Colossians 3:10-11

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself (out) of twain one new man, so making peace"

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."


The Jew loses nothing when he converts. According to men he still has an Israeli passport. According to Galatians 3 he is Christ's and heir to the Covenant of Promise. The only thing removed is the Law - which cursed him. Any man who converts to Christ gains massively. For instance, Israel have forfeit the Kingdom (Matt.21:43). But the second that an Israelite believes in Jesus he is once again eligible by rebirth (Jn.3:3), and by Baptism, he is qualified (Jn.3:5), for the Kingdom of God.

The Book of Hebrews is written to Israelites who had converted, but who, after persecution set in, wanted to return to Moses. The whole Book of Hebrews shows the superiority of Christ over Moses.

The idea of one flock is moot. Our Lord Jesus is KING of the Jews. Sheparding is one function as King.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
#31
A companion verse of Heb 10:10 which confirms the saving result of them Christ died for, namely His Sheep, its Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now who are the them that are sanctified ? Look again at Heb 10:10, and how were they sanctified ? Now these by that same means, Christs death are said to be perfected forever ! This includes their Justification before God, a complete cleansing of all the guilt of their sins. And that for ever ! 10
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#32
In Genesis 1:2 we see that something happened to cause the earth to be in darkness and covered with water. Whatever happened is much discussed and not the subject here. But what is pertinent is that God cannot indefinitely suffer chaos. He is a God of order and a God of Restoration. You have given some good points above, but there are some more.
  1. Our Lord Jesus died for the "sin" of the whole world (Jn.1:29). "Sin" (singular) is the serpentine nature that Adam was corrupted with and which he passed on to all other men (Rom.5:12), except Jesus. The "wages" of "sin" (singular) is death (Rom.5:17, 23). The death of Jesus allows god, judicially, to RESURRECT ALL MEN (whether saved or lost - 1st Cor.15:22)
  2. Our Lord Jesus died for the "Sins" (plural) of the whole world (1st Jn.2:2). This gives God the judicial right to extend mercy to anyone He likes. It is on this basis that Israel can be forgiven and restored to their Land. This does not mean that the guilty will escape - as the Lake of Fire testifies of.
  3. Our Lord Jesus' blood "speaks better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:24). Abel's blood cries for justice, so God cursed the earth. Because Jesus' blood covers all sin and sins, God has the jucial right to restore the earth. This is partly applied in the Millennium, and fully applied in making the heavens and earth NEW in Revelation 21 and 22.
  4. Three of the five main Offerings, the Burnt Offering, the Meal Offering and the Peace Offering do not deal with sin and sins. They deal with man's lack in his relationship to his Maker - Jehovah. Our Lord Jesus fulfilled them all and satisfied God for men (this needs a book to explain)
  5. Every Covenant between God and man must be RATIFIED by blood because of sin and sins. The New Covenant, which will be made with Israel (in that day) when they are united and one Nation again (Jer.31:31-33; Ezek.37), was ratified by Christ's blood. That is why it is called, not only blood for the remission of sins, but "blood of the New Covenant".
If the Lord Jesus has died for the sin of the whole world, as you suggest, then there are no guilty. There is no one that would not go into the Kingdom of God. Even those who don't want to.

They have all been cleaned by the Blood of Christ.

Universalism, in a nutshell. Everyone is saved. No one needs to come to Christ or receive anything. They already have it.


Revelation 7:13-15
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#33
More Calvinistic nonsense that has already been debunked. You will see that in Calvin's actual Bible commentaries, he had no choice except to confirm that Christ died for all mankind. But in spite of that he perverted the Gospel, And that is exactly what you are up to. This is called "another gospel" by Paul.
The only perversion of the gospel is the one you do by insisting that Christ died for the sins of every single person, past and present, in the whole world.

There is no point in any gospel if everyones sins are already forgiven. They are good to go. Into the Kingdom of God with everyone.


But you misunderstand. Forgiveness of sin is something a person must RECEIVE. And the only way to receive it is to come to Christ, and ask. And once someone comes to Christ and receives forgiveness they are eternally saved.


This is absolutely elementary Christianity.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#34
If the Lord Jesus has died for the sin of the whole world, as you suggest, then there are no guilty.
Silly Grandpa, It means that all are guilty and need to willfully come to the fountain and be cleansed therein this very day. You are far too old to have never read your Bible. You are setting yourself up for bigtime embarrassment at best. I hope you are just ignorant and not being blatantly blasphemous.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#35
Forgiveness of sin is something a person must RECEIVE. And the only way to receive it is to come to Christ, and ask. And once someone comes to Christ and receives forgiveness they are eternally saved.


This is absolutely elementary Christianity.
Thank goodness that you have finally come round.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#36
2 Corinthians
5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
5:15 And [that] he died for all
, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#37
He died for the whole world

salvation is offered to all

God will not force his salvation on anyone
God accomplishes his will among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. If he wanted all mankind to be in eternal heaven, then all mankind will be in heaven, therefore, Christ did not die for all mankind.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
A companion verse of Heb 10:10 which confirms the saving result of them Christ died for, namely His Sheep, its Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now who are the them that are sanctified ? Look again at Heb 10:10, and how were they sanctified ? Now these by that same means, Christs death are said to be perfected forever ! This includes their Justification before God, a complete cleansing of all the guilt of their sins. And that for ever ! 10
No one has stated that anyone other than the sheep will be saved

he died for everyone, that does not mean everyone will be saved.

his integrity and his love is confirmed in that fact.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#40
God accomplishes his will among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. If he wanted all mankind to be in eternal heaven, then all mankind will be in heaven, therefore, Christ did not die for all mankind.
Everyone knows about 2Peter 3:9.

You will get no traction with this rubbish.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.