The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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Grandpa

Senior Member
#101
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#101
Corban said:
As proof I proffered John 1:29. I know you do not mean to, but now becomes your word against that of the Almighty. Romans 5:12.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin (singular) entered into the world, and death by sin (singular); and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Of this "sin" that is NOT committed, but passed on to all men (except Jesus), John 1:29 says;

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin (singular) of the world."

Next, you again unwittingly go against the Almighty Who does NOT impose guilt for "sin" (singular). Romans 5:14 says;

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

This in turn again leads you to go against the Words of scripture. You make the removal of sin the ground for entering the Kingdom. But scripture says in John 3:3-5 that a man must be born again to SEE it, and born out of the Spirit and Water to ENTER it. It is true that certain behavior can exclude one from the Kingdom, but these are "sinS" (plural), or "trespasses", not "sin" inherited from Adam.

Adam sinned. It polluted his body and character. This is his transgression. Because God made a law of procreation in Genesis 1:12-13, every one that proceeds from Adam's loins is polluted. This is what scripture calls "sin" (singular). That's why Psalm 51:5 says:

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Our Lord Jesus dies for this matter, not so that men might escape the Lake of Fire, but so that they can be resurrected - for the wages of sin (singular) IS DEATH - not the Lake of Fire.

In light of this, I'm sure you will rethink the matter.
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John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I'm not going against scripture at all. I am reading it in a common sense manner.

If there is no sin then there can be no condemnation.


Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Hebrews 10:12-14
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



Do you understand what these scriptures are saying?

The sins of the whole world means the sins of those in the world who believe in Christ ONLY. Those who don't remain dead IN THEIR SINS.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#103
#103
brightfame52 said:
Well you can not get around it. If Christ death effects Salvation for the ones He died, and all without exception are saved, it stands to reason that the ones not saved He didn't die for. Which equates to He died for some and not all without exception. That some quite naturally is the Elect. You can't see that?
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you Would have to really add so much that is not proven to come to this conclusion. It also takes so much away from the work of the HS. As the means to which we come to faith, as basically says that is not even needed. Because they would come to faith or matter what based solely on the fact christ died for the,

in fact, faith would not even be included, because they would have been saved the moment jesus died, they would have been born saved, and if they died before they came to faith, they would have been saved even in unbelief
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#104
#104
oyster67 said:
The Bible says that Jesus lost Judas. You are a very deceitful man.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
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This is true. but Judas was never saved, so in essence he was not lost, he was given for the sole purpose of being the son of perdition. But I see your point

either way John 6 is true. It is part of our security of being in christ
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#107
#107
Grandpa said:
If the Lord Jesus died for the sins of the whole world then there can be no condemnation.

But John 3:18 shows there is condemnation for those who don't believe.

Therefore, the efficacious death of Christ is for Believers only. Unbelievers are condemned of their SIN.
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again, this is not true.

Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, one who does not believe in effect calls the HS, who has been Gods teacher of his salvation from the beginning a liar. In effect blaspheming him.

if Christ died for the sin of unbelief, THEN no one could be condemned, but that did not happen.

it’s why he said, those who have no believed are condemned already. Because they have not believed.

unbelief is the only thing that will condemn a person.
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#108
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
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#108
Grandpa said:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I'm not going against scripture at all. I am reading it in a common sense manner.

If there is no sin then there can be no condemnation.


Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Hebrews 10:12-14
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



Do you understand what these scriptures are saying?

The sins of the whole world means the sins of those in the world who believe in Christ ONLY. Those who don't remain dead IN THEIR SINS.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
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I answered your statement in your posting # 32. Quote:

Grandpa said:
If the Lord Jesus has died for the sin of the whole world, as you suggest, then there are no guilty. There is no one that would not go into the Kingdom of God. Even those who don't want to.
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Here is what God said, which I had already proffered. Quote:

John 1:29
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"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
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The rest of your argument is moot except that by pitting one scripture against another, all you do is discredit the Bible. I made a statement and gave the verses. You directly negated it. I pointed this out, and gave a short explanation. Again, you try to negate it with other scriptures. Take a careful look what you wrote and what the Holy Spirit wrote - and make a decision whose word is correct. I was just the reporter of what the Holy Spirit said.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#109
Nov 21, 2020
6,355
562
113
#109
The Blood/Death of Christ not only legally saved all for whom He died, but it also effects experiential salvation or conversion. Heb 9:12-14

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

"How much more shall the blood of Christ purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

You see this ? Its the powerful Blood of Christ that converts them He died for unto serving the living God. That means they shall live by the Faith of Christ unto serving the True and Living God.

1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
This is a result of the powerful effectual blood of Christ ! 15
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#110
Nov 21, 2020
6,355
562
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#110
eternally-gratefull said:
you Would have to really add so much that is not proven to come to this conclusion. It also takes so much away from the work of the HS. As the means to which we come to faith, as basically says that is not even needed. Because they would come to faith or matter what based solely on the fact christ died for the,

in fact, faith would not even be included, because they would have been saved the moment jesus died, they would have been born saved, and if they died before they came to faith, they would have been saved even in unbelief
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The Holy Spirit is a reason why Christs death is effective, He works in behalf of Christ to save those Christ died for. So its you who takes away from the Holy Spirit if you dont believe everyone Christ died for their Salvation is effected.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#111
Nov 21, 2020
6,355
562
113
#111
eternally-gratefull said:
Correct no we do not
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At least you honest. The point of the thread Glorifies Christ, in that it proves that all the sinners He died for their Salvation is effected. To suggest anything less dishonors His saving death in my opinion !
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#112
#112
brightfame52 said:
The Holy Spirit is a reason why Christs death is effective, He works in behalf of Christ to save those Christ died for. So its you who takes away from the Holy Spirit if you dont believe everyone Christ died for their Salvation is effected.
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Nope it is you my friend,

Christ died for everyone,

if he did not, he is not the God of love he claims to be

period
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#113
#113
brightfame52 said:
At least you honest. The point of the thread Glorifies Christ, in that it proves that all the sinners He died for their Salvation is effected. To suggest anything less dishonors His saving death in my opinion !
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you can’t glorify Christ based on a false precept. If anything, it takes away from christ

his death is glorified, in the fact that all who willingly believe, his goal, is saved,

him having to send people to hell does also not take away from him, because he offered them salvation, they rejected it.

either way, Christ is glorified
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#114
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#114
brightfame52 said:
The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21.

His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
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The problem isn't that the religion of man doesn't understand eternal salvation it is the religion of man itself.
Faith in Christ is not religion because religion is merely a word used to describe a set beliefs and religious practice but the bond and relationship we have with him far exceeds a bitter word like that.

God is all knowing and knew what would happen before it even began so on one hand it makes sense why some believe in predestination or pre elction however we can cherry pick all the scriptures we want but without looking deeper we might as well not post scripture at all.
There is a certain pattern God has always had all throughout the bible, he always gives a chance of repentence he always warns what will happen if we don't he always tells us or warns us before he does anything but he knows what will happen before it does right? So why then does he give chances? Why does he warn why does he allow call for repentance?

This is pointless if only those who are his from before hand could be saved
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#117
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#117
[QUO
eternally-gratefull said:
and you would be wrong

i could not be born again while still dead in sin. My sin must be justified redeemed first.

I am justified by grace through faith, apart from faith, I am not justified. Apart from justification i am dead in my sin
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So you think that all of the old testament saints, are never born again?


TE="eternally-gratefull, post: 4447778, member: 82611"]Thanks, but I reject your works based salvation theory[/QUOTE]
So, you are not going to tell me how you interpret 2 Tim 2:13?
 
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seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#118
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
1,803
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#118
brightfame52 said:
So then those Christ died for are saved by His death, thats the point of the thread.
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And CHRIST died for the WHOLE world and since GOD made the world for man and men Are In the world then this would Include man,right? So then CHRIST died for all men so that Whosoever believes In him should not perish but have Everlasting life.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#119
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#119
eternally-gratefull said:
and you would be wrong

i could not be born again while still dead in sin. My sin must be justified redeemed first.

I am justified by grace through faith, apart from faith, I am not justified. Apart from justification i am dead in my sin
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You are not justified through your faith, but through the faith "of" Jesus, not "in" Jesus, Gal 2:16.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#120
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#120
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes
but John 6: 40 says it is His will that all who see and believe has eternal life,


he has given those who would believe. As apposed to those who will reject

That is his will
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Yes, but are you interpreting it right?

Jesus's born again "sheep" hear and believe.

The natural, unregenerate, man does not hear and believe in the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2"14, because he is not his sheep, nor does he have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
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