Not By Works

God works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phillipians 2:13

Edit...Eternally Grateful, I know you know this, but this is simply my musings on the matter....

You are counting people that only take up space on a pew, as TRUE CHRISTIANS, we do not. We want the Pretenders to be exposed to the GOSPEL in our Churches, as I presented it, so that someday they may become TRUE CHRISTIAN with BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRITS. But we do not count them as Born Again until we see Genuine Agape LOVE FOR GOD, and the BRETHREN until we cans see it in them.

I used to be one of those Pretenders, until after three attempts at SUICIDE. I daydreamed, during every Sermon.

I hope you do not want take away your:
WINNER, when I presented the GOSPEL.

It is Not believing in your head that equals Salvation.
It is Not sitting on a church pew that equals Salvation.
And it is NOT even Church Membership that equals SALVATION.

It is GENUINE Receiving HIM as LORD of YOUR LIFE in your HEART as an act of AGAPE LOVE that EQUALS RECEIVING SALVATION, that HE GAVE US BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF TIME, 2 Tim. 1:9. YES, we believe in Predestination.

Yes that is what ALMOST ALL OF OSAS CHURCHES REALLY TEACH. Your version is an absolute lie.

You say obedience is the by product of love and faith both of which God put in us

... now what's the difference between that and what I said which is that our salvation is a work done in us by God?

For me, if I see a person who says he was saved, and does not appear to be walking, I don’t judge his salvation, I try to disciple him see what is wrong, help him with his walk, and try to show him if he has sin issues what damage that sin is doing

judging a person has never worked in helping the, it pushes them further away

I used to have the same view of OSAS that Phoneman does. For a long time. Then I started reading and listening to Reformed and Puritans and realized that I simply did not correctly understand their position . I'm not a fan of OSAS terminology, but I agree with the position you present. There are others I have read whose OSAS postion I disagree with. I think he is putting everyone in the same category, and not realizing that some teach it correctly and some don't.

Well only God Almighty knows the "state" of the heart of anyone who can believe they can lose eternal salvation but it is my firm belief that no one can even attempt to "undo" what the Lord has done. That would come under the classification of "lack of faith, works."

You will be in my prayers. May the Lord ease your pain or totally remove it. May He also remove the damage from that stroke. Keep thinking positive.

Folks, I too have a prayer request for all of you. I was diagnosed with breast cancer last Friday. In 2006 I lost my right kidney to cancer. God saved me from that and I pray it is His will to save me from this. I've still got a lot of "talking, singing, dancing, disciplining to do. So any and all prayers are appreciated.

OSAS is simply a short explanation for the fact that God provided a way for all we sinners to come to Him and be cleansed from our sins, to be clothed in His Righteousness in order for us to even be in His presence, to live with Him for all eternity, for us to be sealed with His Holy Spirit in order for us to be kept unto Him. No one I know who believes in eternal salvation and redemption has ever uttered the phrase " license to sin. " That phrase has been added by those who believe they can "lose" the salvation which was given to them as a free gift from the Creator of this world. I care less what one wants to call my belief that when I accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, was baptized and "sealed" by the HS that I now have eternal salvation.

Nah, Predestination is the lie, and so is OSAS which borrows “Irresistible Grace” from TULIP but throws out the rest of it.

When you learn that God’s character is such that He doesn’t force anyone at anytime to do anything, then you’ll abandon these false ideas.

“Whosoever will, let him come.”

Nothing, but it didn't seem like you went far enough in your explanation. GOD put HIS AGAPE LOVE IN OUR HEART, ROM. 5:5. that LOVE changes our human spirit into an eternally ALIVE human spirit, and that eternally alive spirit, will soon dominate the Will of the Flesh. No, I am not trying to grab some of the GLORY, that Solely belongs to GOD. That change in us will dominate more and more as WE spiritually mature, but we will not become SINLESS until the RESURRECTION. He is a couple of verses that I picked up from my Pastors Sermon this morning:

Titus 2:13-14 (NCV)
13 We should live like that while we wait for our great hope and the coming of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
14 He gave himself for us so he might pay the price to free us from all evil, {including the sense of duty that I HAVE TO OBEY.} and to make us pure people who belong only to him—people who are always wanting to do good deeds.

No we do not get to Pat ourselves on the back, as the Change IN US, is part of being Born Again, and HE GETS THE FULL CREDIT FOR THAT CHANGE.

Gives you a whole new Perspective for: NO TURNING BACK, doesn't it.


I have decided to follow Jesus - YouTube

and what you are pushing is just as bad of a lie as osas.

what you are saying is this- we are saved by faith, demonstrated by good works and staying away from sin. then, if you have enough faith, do enough good works, then God will continue to give you grace.

in other words, do in order to receive.

but, the Biblical way is saved BY grace THROUGH faith FOR good works.

i know your way. their is dozens of versions of it,

it is man-made religion . just as man-made as osas.

Interested to know what your thoughts are on predestination and why it's a lie.

Do you disagree with all of the TUlIP doctrine?

Very interesting post indeed.

I totally agree with you in that we are saved by grace through faith for good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Your paragraph starting with "what you are saying" struck a chord with me. Because I was that person. If I did well then God would continue to give me grace and if not then it would be withdrawn and I was going to hell.

My understanding now is that grace is unmerited favour. It cannot be earned. If I can't earn it then why seek it. I have already been given it.

When I realised this it actually set me free. It set me free from the bondage of having to do to wanting to do.

Having to do bound me in chains and wanting to broke those chains.
I went from "God if I do this and stop doing this then you would love me to God you love me and I just want to be like you.

When I realised this AGAPE love God has for me I could come before him when I mess up, confess it and ask for help.

Don't know where you're getting that from. We teach we're saved by grace, and obedience is the evidence we've been saved...and the lack thereof is evidence to the contrary which is what 1 JOHN 2:3-4 KJV says. What you hyper grace guys want is a salvation that cannot be discarded after it's received.

Was that the case of the forgiven Unmerciful Servant?

Or the case with the saints who escaped the pollution of the world and were cleansed but returned back to the world as dogs to their vomit and pigs to the slop?

Or the case with the saints who could not be renewed again unto repentance because they crucified and shamed the Son afresh?

Or the case with the saints who had only fiery indignation and judgment to look forward to because they willfully sinned after receiving into their hearts the knowledge of the truth?

Or with the saints who's agape grew cold and dead and failed to endure to the end and be saved because they decided the pleasure of iniquity was more important than obedience to God?

salvation can be discarded after being chosen.

salvation is obtained by believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

if you believe in heart and confess with your mouth, you will be saved.

so, if after doing that, and then one day cease to believe, and thereby stop confessing with the mouth, then salvation is discarded.

that is it. everything else is a separate conversation.

when you attach other things to that, it becomes adding works.

not by works, but a gift of God.

Pretty much, yes.

TULIP says we're so corrupt that we can't even look in God's direction unless He cleans us up a bit...but somehow in Job the all time wickedest being in history can communicate with God just fine.

TULIP says God decided beforehand who would be forced to be saved and who He would punish for daring to commit the evil that He programmed them to commit. OSAS borrows "Irresistible Grace" from TULIP but throws out the rest.

TULIP says Jesus did not die for the sins of all, but for a select few chosen beforehand...which is nothing more than a baptized version of the "Exclusivity Religion" found in Catholicism under the guise of "unreserved submission to papal authority" and found in the Luciferian occult science of secret societies like Freemasonry which says, "I knoweth the path and you don't, so piss off, ye profane".

....Only if you maintain that status of ... born again...and righteous..... until the end. We are not saved until God judges us after death and says so.

Attached waht?