Regeneration in the Old Testament?

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T

throughfaith

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#41
Aug 4, 2020
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#41
Notice when its possible to be regenerated according to the bible and not according to certain theologies .
John 7
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

No one was Regenerated until Acts 2 .
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#44
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#44
The Holy Spirit was not yet given as a gift, He was with the disciples but after Pentecost He dwelled in them. this is the regeneration.
 
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throughfaith

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#45
Aug 4, 2020
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#45
Acts 11 .
19¶Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Why are they preaching to Jews here who are ' supposedly ' regenerated under the old covenant?
 
T

throughfaith

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#46
Aug 4, 2020
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#46
Was Paul not regenerated under the old covenant? He seems like he should have been given his credentials. But no he wasn't was he ?
 
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throughfaith

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#47
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#47
Prophecies of regeneration occurring in the OT are future tense showing that it was not occurring at the time .Also they refute replacement theology.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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#48
Jun 11, 2018
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#48
From King David this time (Keith Green sings the words from Psalm 51:10-12).


More to come (Dv) .... :)
 
T

throughfaith

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#49
Aug 4, 2020
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#49
Deuteronomy said:
From King David this time (Keith Green sings the words from Psalm 51:10-12).


More to come (Dv) .... :)
Click to expand...
Ps 51
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

No regeneration here. And this especially refutes the idea .
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

David would see the Spirit come and go from Saul . Who was not regenerated either as Acts 2 hadn't happened yet.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#50
#50
throughfaith said:
Sophisticated

So this is how we are saved today is it ?
10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
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Just more evasion on your part.

In all of your non-responses to what I actually said, you've failed to address THE REALITY (deal with it) that Paul said that he preached the same exact WORD OF FAITH or RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH that Moses preached to the Israelites.

As I said earlier, you're stubborn (and, might I add, proud), and it's only going to cost you in the end if you don't repent.

At my end, I'm trying to help you.

At your end, you're basically digging your own grave.

To each his own.
 
T

throughfaith

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#51
Aug 4, 2020
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#51
Live4Him said:
Just more evasion on your part.

In all of your non-responses to what I actually said, you've failed to address THE REALITY (deal with it) that Paul said that he preached the same exact WORD OF FAITH or RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH that Moses preached to the Israelites.

As I said earlier, you're stubborn (and, might I add, proud), and it's only going to cost you in the end if you don't repent.

At my end, I'm trying to help you.

At your end, you're basically digging your own grave.

To each his own.
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More bluster . Rom 10 .
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which WE preach;
Not Moses but WE .
Moses mentions nothing what Paul says after this .
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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#52
Oct 18, 2018
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#52
throughfaith said:
Nonsense .The Holy Spirit is not involved, or mentioned..' REGENERATION is not mentioned .
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The concept of regeneration is well known in the OT. Anyone that knows the bible knows that this is true:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Barnes:

John 3:10
A master of Israel - A “teacher” of Israel; the same word that in the second verse is translated “teacher.” As such a teacher he ought to have understood this doctrine. It was not new,” but was clearly taught in the Old Testament. See particularly Psa_51:10, Psa_51:16-17; Eze_11:19; Eze_36:26. It may seem surprising that a man whose business it was to teach the people should be a stranger to so plain and important a doctrine
 
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throughfaith

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#53
Aug 4, 2020
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#53
ewq1938 said:
The concept of regeneration is well known in the OT. Anyone that knows the bible knows that this is true:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Barnes:

John 3:10
A master of Israel - A “teacher” of Israel; the same word that in the second verse is translated “teacher.” As such a teacher he ought to have understood this doctrine. It was not new,” but was clearly taught in the Old Testament. See particularly Psa_51:10, Psa_51:16-17; Eze_11:19; Eze_36:26. It may seem surprising that a man whose business it was to teach the people should be a stranger to so plain and important a doctrine
Click to expand...
Ive already covered this approach on here . Just check through .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#54
Aug 4, 2020
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#54
ewq1938 said:
The concept of regeneration is well known in the OT. Anyone that knows the bible knows that this is true:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Barnes:

John 3:10
A master of Israel - A “teacher” of Israel; the same word that in the second verse is translated “teacher.” As such a teacher he ought to have understood this doctrine. It was not new,” but was clearly taught in the Old Testament. See particularly Psa_51:10, Psa_51:16-17; Eze_11:19; Eze_36:26. It may seem surprising that a man whose business it was to teach the people should be a stranger to so plain and important a doctrine
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Barnes being a 4 point calvinist how else would he respond ?
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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#55
Oct 18, 2018
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#55
throughfaith said:
Barnes being a 4 point calvinist how else would he respond ?
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Barnes is also very knowledgeable about the bible.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
 
T

throughfaith

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#56
Aug 4, 2020
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#56
ewq1938 said:
Barnes is also very knowledgeable about the bible.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
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None of that is ' regeneration ' Ezekiel is taking about a future 0ccurance yet to be fulfilled for Israel? Creating a new heart and renewing a right spirit in David is not talking about regeneration. All that's happening is folks today go fishing in the OT for anything that sounds remotely like ' renewing or a heart change ect and think " yeah thats it ,it must be regeneration. David is praying to not have the Holy Spirit taken from him . Thats not new testament regeneration where by we are sealed unto the day of redemption having recieved the circumcision made WITHOUT hands .
 
T

throughfaith

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#57
Aug 4, 2020
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#57
ewq1938 said:
Barnes is also very knowledgeable about the bible.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Click to expand...
Barnes is a 4 point calvinist. As a Calvinist you NEED regeneration that precedes faith. So its crucial to have regeneration in the OT for obvious reasons.
 
T

throughfaith

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#60
Aug 4, 2020
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#60
ewq1938 said:
It's still multiple examples of spiritual regeneration in the OT.
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Spirtual regeneration is not pleading with God to not take away the Holy Spirit from you. Nor is your future reference that is yet to take place for Israel. Your doing exactly what was anticipated. Inference and assumption . There is no misunderstanding in the Nt . Its clear . its spelled out . And its because of what was promised to happen only after Acts 2 .
 
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