Is the human "spirit" the "perception" they hold; God's or Satan's lie (carnal mind)?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#1
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#1
Is the human "spirit" the "perception" they hold; God's or Satan's lie (carnal mind)?

Does the Bible sometimes use "spirit" for "perception"?

Otherwise, what is this about?:
​
Ephesians 2:2-3 "according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"​
​
Ephesians 6:12 "Spiritual wickedness in high places"​

Is the human spirit a historical database of your life/perception and then opening the door to Christ allows the Holy Spirit to cleanse/renew/regenerate it? At death, is the spirit flashing the history to the soul? Can both Spirits (human and God's Holy Spirit) be in a soul at the same time or is it more of a handshake/relationship?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#2
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#2
Can we differentiate the human spirit from the Holy Spirit with the human spirit being defined as the history of using the perception of the Holy Spirit? Does the Holy Spirit cleanse our sin history with the relationship? This is only possible because of what Jesus did.

Does someone with a history of using the perception of satan at physical death, end up holding onto their carnal mind history?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#3
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#3
Jesus removed satan's automatic claim on everyone's soul/body, but you still have to face judgement for what you did. You have to ask for forgiveness before physical death.

If your perception is set to God's Word, your spirit has a relationship with the Holy Spirit. Jesus died for the sins of the soul/body, but your spirit/perception has to be connected to the Holy Spirit to be in the Book Of Life. Without opening the door in your physical life, your soul and spirit become disconnected from God. You signed yourself up to the perception of satan for infinity.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#4
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#4
Is a human's spirit, their perception of the knowledge of good and evil?

Is "human spirit" interchangeable with "perception" throughout the Bible?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#5
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#5
It doesn’t have to be “decisions”, perception of God’s Word vs satan’s lie is at the core of this reality. I don’t think satan can have an evil spirit in multiple people ..it has to be a perception of The Truth.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#6
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#6
Does The Truth manifest good perception?
 
S

SoulSearcher

Member
#7
Jan 21, 2021
66
36
18
#7
pittsburghjoe said:
Does The Truth manifest good perception?
Click to expand...
I used to believe good and evil were largely about perception. Not any more, since Jesus showed me the truth I perceive only good and evil. In a grey world the truth helps you decode good vs evil, there are no grey areas really.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#8
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#8
Adam and Eve became self-aware with the forbidden fruit. They suddenly could be about themselves. Sin is all about yourself. They got a perception of good and evil. They became lowercase gods and made their own rules. The carnal mindset of death.

"In the Myers/Briggs Personality Test the letter P represents perception. Perception is the acknowledgement of the Reality from one’s point of view, more like an opinion regarding it. Perceptions can and do change as experiences continue to re-advise the person."​
​
"The Self is a Freudian Archetypes in our mind. We even call it the Reality Principle because it is surmising the external Reality and developing its knowledge about that environment."​
​
via David Kofh​

I think “human spirit” and “perception” became the same thing.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#9
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#9
Is it the soul's perception vs the spirit's perception? Is this life about getting both to align with The Truth?

Is the soul's perception defaulted to carnal/satan (born into original sin) and if we don't open the door to Christ, we stay that way for eternity?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#10
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#10
Ephesians 3:19
“And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

God's Love surpasses knowledge ..could it be the same knowledge from the Tree?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#11
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#11
The human spirit is dead at birth ..but it is God's version of death in sin.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#12
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#12
Maybe the soul is the "evil" and the spirit is the "good". We have the perception of the tree. The relationship with the Holy Spirit gets rid of the perception, but the soul is still attached to a physical/corrupt human body. We still have to deal with evil thoughts.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#13
Jul 31, 2013
36,902
13,210
113
#13
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.​
“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’​
“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’​
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’​
“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’​
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’​
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”​
(Luke 16:19-31 NIV)​
​

a couple of interesting things to note here about, because we're talking about a man who has died in the flesh and also does not have life in Christ -- so qualifies as 'dead' both in the physical & spiritual sense

  • the dead still have personhood
  • the dead still have existence and are cogent
  • the dead can 'look up' - they have eyes
  • the dead have tongues
  • the dead can be tormented
  • the dead can experience agony
  • the dead can desire water
  • the dead can communicate
  • the dead remember their past and their family
  • the dead have emotion

someone offended by what is written here may come along and say 'this only is a parable, it's not real' -- but you may answer them, saying, Jesus does not call it a parable, gives no indication it is a parable at all, Jesus does not use proper names in any parable but says 'a certain man..' etc, and even if it were a parable rather than a true event, Jesus does not use lies and false, impossible situations in order to teach. everything in this is accurate and true representation or else you make Christ a liar.

put together all the faculties this dead man has, and i think we have a clear picture that the soul/mind/spirit persist after the death of the body. this proves the eternal existence of the person, beyond death - both physical and spiritual death - and proves that the physical body is not the person, but the non-physical is.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#14
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#14
posthuman said:
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.​
“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’​
“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’​
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’​
“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’​
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’​
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”​
(Luke 16:19-31 NIV)​
​

a couple of interesting things to note here about, because we're talking about a man who has died in the flesh and also does not have life in Christ -- so qualifies as 'dead' both in the physical & spiritual sense

  • the dead still have personhood
  • the dead still have existence and are cogent
  • the dead can 'look up' - they have eyes
  • the dead have tongues
  • the dead can be tormented
  • the dead can experience agony
  • the dead can desire water
  • the dead can communicate
  • the dead remember their past and their family
  • the dead have emotion

someone offended by what is written here may come along and say 'this only is a parable, it's not real' -- but you may answer them, saying, Jesus does not call it a parable, gives no indication it is a parable at all, Jesus does not use proper names in any parable but says 'a certain man..' etc, and even if it were a parable rather than a true event, Jesus does not use lies and false, impossible situations in order to teach. everything in this is accurate and true representation or else you make Christ a liar.

put together all the faculties this dead man has, and i think we have a clear picture that the soul/mind/spirit persist after the death of the body. this proves the eternal existence of the person, beyond death - both physical and spiritual death - and proves that the physical body is not the person, but the non-physical is.
Click to expand...
Are you saying the spirit can go to Hades also?

What about this? "the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" ..some say it was in a poem, but if it is in the Bible shouldn't we consider it?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#15
Jul 31, 2013
36,902
13,210
113
#15
pittsburghjoe said:
Are you saying the spirit can go to Hades also?

What about this? "the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" ..some say it was in a poem, but if it is in the Bible shouldn't we consider it?
Click to expand...
we could say that the difference between soul & spirit is exemplified here - the spirit returning to God, the body to dust, and the soul ((in this case)) to hades.

for example we have it said, 'God has not given us a spirit of fear' -- who is the 'us' ? well that's the soul, isn't it? that's where personhood is identified. and another example, Mark 9:17-29, a boy possessed by an evil spirit. the spirit is identified as separate from the boy, speaking independently of the boy, and can be driven out. the spirit does things to the boys body. the personhood of the boy is identified with the boy's soul, and the body of the boy being acted on by the spirit.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#16
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#16
Maybe only the soul has the perception of the tree of knowledge and the spirit can only be fully good or fully evil perception.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#17
Jul 31, 2013
36,902
13,210
113
#17
posthuman said:
we could say that the difference between soul & spirit is exemplified here - the spirit returning to God, the body to dust, and the soul ((in this case)) to hades.

for example we have it said, 'God has not given us a spirit of fear' -- who is the 'us' ? well that's the soul, isn't it? that's where personhood is identified. and another example, Mark 9:17-29, a boy possessed by an evil spirit. the spirit is identified as separate from the boy, speaking independently of the boy, and can be driven out. the spirit does things to the boys body. the personhood of the boy is identified with the boy's soul, and the body of the boy being acted on by the spirit.
Click to expand...


from Genesis, at the creation of Adam, he has a body formed by God from dust, and God breathes a spirit of life into that body, and he becomes a living soul. which one is Adam? he is the soul - a soul which is inhabiting a body, but which persists when detached from the body ((identified as the person, there in Luke 16)), and that after detachment of the soul from the body, the locality of personhood follows the soul, not the body. perception and thinking and awareness all seem to be tied to the soul

Solomon tells us the spirit of a man doesn't remain in the dust, and Jesus tells us the soul of a man doesn't remain in the dust. yet we will be resurrected -- the rejoining of the soul with the renewed body -- and all of one Spirit, in Christ
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#18
Jul 31, 2013
36,902
13,210
113
#18
pittsburghjoe said:
Ephesians 3:19
“And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

God's Love surpasses knowledge ..could it be the same knowledge from the Tree?
Click to expand...
the knowledge associated with the tree seems to be a specific knowledge, but the love of Christ surpasses all knowledge - i don't think we all know God by virtue of our ancestor Adam eating from that tree.
for example, Jesus says no one knows the Father unless He chooses to reveal Himself to them ((Luke 10:22)) -- so is that something coming from our inherited nature or from God? in John 8:19 He tells His accusers they do not know God, tho they are also descended from Adam. so it doesn't seem to *fit* that knowing Him and His love ((assuming they are correlative)) are things mankind gained through Adam, but, that knowledge is a gift from God to whom He wills to give it.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#19
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#19
The Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek word pneuʹma, often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings.​
​
All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion.​
​
The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force or “breath" in earthly creatures or persons, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) God's active force (Holy Spirit)​
​
via Rodney James,​

Could God's active Force be the Vector Field? "Force" is an attribute.

The human spirit is how we know there is a God. I think the human spirit is in the heart ..it is what drives/incites the soul/body/mind to behave the way it does.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

Banned
#20
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
#20
The spirit is from God's Breath. The soul is sourced from the blood of the body?

When God gave us a spirit, He was giving us conviction/incite/will-power to run the soul/body. Original sin caused that good conviction to be dead (carnal). I don't think the human spirit is identity, so it is free to return to God before a soul goes to hell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.