Who is the beast that was and is not?

Can some of the brethren here help me unlock a few things:

Revelation 17:9-12
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

1. Who are the seven kings?

2. Who is the beast that was and is not? My guess would be something related to the Roman Empire as previously in the chapter it talks about purple and scarlet and being drunk with the blood of the saints and cup of abominations, all fit the Catholic Church.

3. Rome is called the city on seven hills so I am confident the mountains refer to that. I have heard some say Jerusalem is also called that, but I find Rome to be more likely as John is writing in code to avoid further Roman persecution I believe. It also says the city runs the kingdoms of the earth, that much more aligns with Vatican city where all the world leaders meet the Pope all the time and they are actively involved. Jerusalem doesn't really run things right now.

The 7 mountains is in Jerusalem, she she is the whore, mystery Babylon the great

Jerusalem rules the world,Madison the fore front of everything today, as they seek peace in the middle east, and yes the future Antichrist will promise this false peace

The Pope will fill the role of the false prophet possibly, because the Jews are waiting for their Messiah from the lineage of David, the pope dont fit the Antichrist bill

OK so Whore of Babylon is centralized in Rome.

In 1796, during the French Revolutionary Wars, French troops under Napoleon Bonaparte invaded Rome and captured Pope Pius VI, taking him as a prisoner to France, where he died in 1799.

Prior to Napoleon the Pope and Roman Church (centralized in Rome) was the 2nd beast of Rev 13.
ever since Napoleon the Roman Church began its transition to the Whore of Babylon.

1) So Napoleon is the fist king for Whore of Babylon. King of Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Italy#Kingdom_of_Italy,_House_of_Savoy_(1861–1946)

After Napoleon was defeated the Pope was restored but weakened some.

Now The First Vatican Council is dated The First Vatican Council (Latin: Concilium Vaticanum Primum) was convoked by Pope Pius IX on 29 June 1868, after a period of planning and preparation that began on 6 December 1864.

The next four kings of Italy are from 1861-1946.
2) Victor Emmanuel II
3) Umberto I
4) Victor Emmanuel III
5) Umberto II

Now these kings are (the beast).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Italy#Kingdom_of_Italy,_House_of_Savoy_(1861–1946)

After 1946 Italy becomes a democratic system and the King becomes a figurehead.
Now after 1946 the beast is not
Democratic Italy is the 6th king, "one is".
This matches with, "the beast is not".

Democratic government = the beast is not.
At this point 1946 the pope has to work without the presence of the 1st beast.
Therefore the 2nd beast cannot be the 2nd beast without the 1st beast.
The transition from 2nd beast to whore of babylon for the Roman Church is complete by 1946.

The seventh king has not come yet.
The seventh king comes when the democratic government ends, "yet to come". .
The beast once was, now is not, and is yet to come.

When will the seventh king come? When will the beast "who is now not, yet to come"? When western democracy fails.

Follow me?

The beast is not = western democracy

The beast is not

1st beast + 2nd beast = imperial sate + church
beast is not + 2nd beast = democratic government + false prophet

The beast will be a human man, and his body will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

False, The beast will be a human man, and his body will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Greetings Kolistus,

I posted this in a previous post, but I'll post it here again regarding the beast who:

Once was = He was once in the world (most likely the power behind another earthly ruler)

Now is not = Is currently not in the world, but is in the Abyss

And yet will come = He will be coming back out of the Abyss and into the world

This beast is first mentioned at the sounding of the 5th trumpet (Rev.9), as the angel of the Abyss, the king of those demonic beings who are also in the Abyss and who resemble locusts with tails and stings like that of a scorpion. It is at the sounding of the 5th trumpet when that angel/beast comes back out of the Abyss.

I believe that this beast, that fallen angel, when he comes up out of the Abyss, will become the power behind the already evil antichrist. It is after the beast comes up out of the Abyss when the antichrist causes the offerings and sacrifices to cease and sets up that abomination in the temple and proclaims himself to be God.

So, prior to John, in the past, this angel/beast 'once was' in the world. At the time that John was receiving this information, that angel/beast was no longer in the world, but had been locked up in the Abyss. He will be released again at the sounding of the 5th trumpet and will be back in the world. That angel and the spiritual entities that are down in the Abyss must not be a very nice place, because even those fallen angels collectively called 'Legion' begged Jesus not to send them into the Abyss (Luke 8:30).

Luke 8:31
And the demons kept begging Jesus not to order them to go into the Abyss.

Revelation 11:7
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

The demons did not want to go down to the Abyss.
The beast (also demonic) comes up from the Abyss. BINGO!!!!!!

If the beast is a human man how can he go down to the Abyss and not die?
How can a human man come up alive from the Abyss?
Only a demon can go down to the Abyss and come back up without dying. BINGO!!!!

Play It Again Sam!

False, The Beast and False Prophet will be a Human Men, and their bodies will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Simple, Simple, Simple, Your Wrong

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

If the testimony ended with the Bible Canon ..all this already happened.

The beast is not a man, but a fallen angel who is currently in the Abyss. The man of lawlessness/antichrist who is to come, is a man. When the beast comes up out of the Abyss, he will be the spiritual power behind the antichrist. The antichrist will be the one who establishes the seven year covenant with Israel in part and when the beast comes up out of the Abyss, he will at that time be the power behind the antichrist which is when he will cause the offerings and sacrifices to cease and the abomination to be set up. One will be a literal man and the other a fallen angel out of the Abyss, who will be the power behind the antichrist.

Thank you. Could you give me your best estimation on who this "Once was" earthly ruler was who was supported by the beast? Perhaps it was during the Maccabee days when they put up an idol and a pig in the Temple?

Also, what is your opinion regarding the 7 Kings, of which one was in John's day, five had fallen.

Mountains in the bible are often a metaphor for big powerful nations, while hills are usually a metaphor for smaller nations.
The seven heads of the beast which are also the seven mountains and the seven kings represent the G-7 nations today. Five of these nations have fallen from their prominence among the worlds nations, while one is currently the prominent member, and one is yet to ascend to the prominent position.

(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This is all you have. You browbead this one verse without understanding it.

"These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The Roman Empire which represents pushing for territory, domination, does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts the beast kingdom down which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The 10 horns come from the Roman Empire the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section so they cover the whole earth.

When the nations come together for a global government the Pope will be the leader of a unified religious system, and the Vatican the headquarters as they go by the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, and the New Age Christ pushes the agenda of the new age movement to prepare the world for when he claims to be God by evolving to be greater.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The 7 hills have nothing to do with Jerusalem, or the Jews, because God is going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews by sending them 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior which Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.

God always restores the Jews, the whole house of Israel, and said that Israel will never cease from being a nation.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

Israeli fighter pilots, jets, like birds flying, paved the way for them to win the 6 day war, a967, and take control of Jerusalem as God is working with them, and soon all the Jews will be back on their land.

When the nations come together for a global government the Gentiles nations will cause all the Jews to go to Israel which God said He will leave none of the Jews in the nations anymore, and they will know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.

The 7 hills have nothing to do with Jerusalem, and the Jews, and Jerusalem is not the whore for that is the false religious system that the Pope will lead, and it is Babylon in spirit for Babylon will never have physical dominion again.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

5 are fallen 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Greece.

One is at the time John wrote Revelation 6. Roman Empire.

One is to come 7. 10 horn kingdom which will continue a short space, three and one half years.

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

8. The beast, New Age Christ, antichrist, which will rule for the next three and one half years.

Which God is giving the world 7 years to have their way and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast, and when they take the mark of the beast then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will end sin on earth.

The beast is of the 7 because the devil influenced those 7 kingdoms.

The beast that was as he rules, and is not for he will soon be punished.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Some people believe that the 10 kings are 10 different rulers that came one after the other but this is not true.

For the 10 kings give their power and strength to the beast all together at the same time which they are all ruling together at the same time which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section.

They hand their power and strength unto the beast and that is how he gets control of the world.

This did not happen in the past but is future.

Good point, is there any alternative evidence pointing to Jerusalem being that city? I find it intriguing that Rev 18:24 and Matthew 23:30-31 use similar language.

But the old and new testament are still giving testimony to every generation.