PREACHING SO AS TO CONVERT NOBODY.

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cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#21
Nov 20, 2018
23,069
8,383
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#21
Blackpowderduelist said:
His opening statement is clear that he is proposing that a preacher must adapt the truth by skillfully means to convert souls. his own words. Read the opening statement again.

It is generally conceded at the present day that the Holy Spirit converts souls to Christ by means of truth adapted to that end. It follows that a selfish preacher will not skillfully adapt means to convert souls to Christ, for this is not his end.
A selfish preacher does not skillfully adapt means to convert souls because it is not his intent.

This guy is a mongrel.
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No no no. Clearly Finney's missive is a stern rebuke to the false preachers. He is outlining what they are doing. Not what we should be doing.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#22
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#22
It is very obvious that this was meant to be ironic. From the article:
The design of this article is to propound several rules by a steady conformity to any one of which a man may preach so as not to convert anybody. It is generally conceded at the present day that the Holy Spirit converts souls to Christ by means of truth adapted to that end. It follows that a selfish preacher will not skillfully adapt means to convert souls to Christ, for this is not his end.
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Why would Finney have called preachers who follow such advice 'selfish' if he were actually encouraging preachers to behave this way?
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#23
#23
presidente said:
It is very obvious that this was meant to be ironic. From the article:


Why would Finney have called preachers who follow such advice 'selfish' if he were actually encouraging preachers to behave this way?
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It is most certainly not irony.
" a selfish preacher will not skillfully adapt means"
I read very much of the other stuff on that web site. And he most certainly does promote the idea of using means and methods along with the gospel.
Stuff like particular timing and environment control. As he puts it was but not to warm and well ventilated, and comfortable seats.
He also says there are 4 agencies of salvation: God, the word, the preacher, and the individual. It's decision theology and he promotes soliciting a decision for Christ.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#24
#24
He condemns quite regularly preachers who attend social functions, a model Jesus did not adhere to.
 
inukubo

inukubo

Active member
#25
Jun 27, 2019
169
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#25
Charles Finney: All-Time Fake Conversion Champion
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#26
Mar 18, 2021
5,378
3,169
113
#26
Blackpowderduelist said:
It is most certainly not irony.
" a selfish preacher will not skillfully adapt means"
I read very much of the other stuff on that web site. And he most certainly does promote the idea of using means and methods along with the gospel.
Stuff like particular timing and environment control. As he puts it was but not to warm and well ventilated, and comfortable seats.
He also says there are 4 agencies of salvation: God, the word, the preacher, and the individual. It's decision theology and he promotes soliciting a decision for Christ.
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Finney's methods are not scriptural and were fundamentally self reliant. His zeal was admirable, but "salvation is from the Lord" still, not according to man's natural ability or education or even zeal.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#27
#27
Gideon300 said:
Finney's methods are not scriptural and were fundamentally self reliant. His zeal was admirable, but "salvation is from the Lord" still, not according to man's natural ability or education or even zeal.
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That is what I am seeing from the amount of very wordy plop I have read from his web site.
He writes that we should "adorn" the gospel. He defines that as proving it's efficacy by our own works.
This guy is a mongrel
 
inukubo

inukubo

Active member
#28
Jun 27, 2019
169
166
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#28
He also denied substitutionary atonement and believed that the efficacy of Christ's death was through it's moral example, so...
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#29
#29
"No wonder that a great deal of preaching produces so little effect. Gestures are of more importance than is generally supposed. Mere words will never express the full meaning of the Gospel."

This is a quote from his website there.
So faith don't come by hearing and hearing by the word.
You have to include gesturing and body language. He also speaks about tone of voice and other such devices.

I knew his opening statement was a glimpse into his religious ideology, and a huge red flag.

He thinks that the Holy Spirit must be helped out by human agency.
 
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