Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

In support of your insightful post:
Unfortunately there is no Scriptural user manual for the five-fold ministries, and so there have been differences of opinion and practice about how these ministries are to be performed.

Because Paul had only the Old Testament Scriptures as the basis of his teaching, and the revelation the Holy Spirit gave him that is reflected in his letters, his definition of "prophet" would have been according to the Old Testament model. This model did not consist in someone getting zapped with a revelation from God and speaking it out. When the Word of God came to a prophet it was more in the form of teaching and exhortation and announcements concerning what God was going to do in the future. It is true that often the prophet himself said things under the inspiration of the Spirit that he didn't fully understand, especially things that were to happen way into the future. So, the prophet was a combination of preacher, exhorter, and predictor of the future. He was the voice of conscience for the nation of Israel.

So, Paul quite easily have seen the New Testament prophet ministry as the voice of conscience for the church. He did not see anything like the "prophet for the nation' that some think they are in these modern days. Although Agabus predicted a famine, the prophecy was not for the pagan Romans. It was directed to the church, so his example would not support those who think they are 'prophets for America' today.

Even though the church today is split up into different denominations. It is still possible for the prophet ministry to operate. A believer can have that ministry as the voice of conscience for his denomination, even though it may not be recognised by others.

The ministry of Teacher is the one that spends the time giving insights into God's Word. I can sit all day in a teaching conference and enjoy every minute of it, because of the ministry of teaching the speaker has. But 20 minutes of the pastor's message on a Sunday morning is long enough for me. Not every pastor or minister has the ministry of teaching.

And He does them today for exactly the same reasons. We are still in the church age. This means that the same Holy Spirit power is available to our modern church as it was in the early 1st century church.

The reason why we don't see that power often manifested is due to the lack of commitment to Christ, low standards of holiness, party spirit, and pagan practices - all in our churches. And the main one: many churches just don't believe that the power of the Holy Spirit as was seen in the 1st Century church is available to today, because it ceased when the canon of Scripture was completed.

So, it is the church itself that is the enemy of faith. It is so indoctrinated with unbelief, that the Holy Spirit can't do much except stand back and watch churches and whole denominations go into decline, and the occult, paganism, lawlessness, and the works of the flesh take over from the church in our western society.

The church is the sleeping giant that won't get out of bed and get going on the mission it was commissioned for.

I agree He does them today

Amen! And INFIRMITIES for "The POWER Of CHRIST" are linked
To The Gospel Of GRACE, And The Body Of CHRIST! Amen?:

God's ALL-Sufficient GRACE in infirmities {Especially #3 below...}

Grace And Peace to All Precious friend(s), Dear readers,
and, diligent students of God's Holy Word! Praying Hopefully
The Following Scriptures Will Bring God's "Peace, Hope, And
Comfort" into your life in This Current Dispensation Of The
Amazing GRACE Of A Wonderful God!:

(1) In That GRACE, God, In HIS Omniscience, Had Already
Chosen HIS Own In CHRIST, And Already Knew What
"infirmities, trouble, trials, afflictions, sufferings, And
persecutions we would go through,” And, Thank HIM, HE
"Promised" HE Will Never Give us more testing than
we can handle. (Ephesians_1:4; 1_Corinthians_10:13 KJB!)
Amen?

(2) Please, Precious friend(s):
Thank God IN {easy}, And, Also, FOR {Difficult?}, ALL things!
(1_Thessalonians_5:18; Ephesians_5:20 KJB!)

(3) After Paul (our #"pattern"# for Today!), prayed 3 times
for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The
Scriptures, Was:

"And HE {CHRIST} Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For
thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly
therefore will I rather glory {cp} in my infirmities, that The
Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!"
(2_Corinthians_12:9 KJB!) {cp 2_Corinthians_11:23-30 KJB!}

(4) "For our light affliction, which Is But For A Moment, worketh
for us a Far More Exceeding And Eternal weight of glory; While
we look Not at the things which are seen, but at the things
Which Are Not Seen: for the things which are seen [are]
temporal; but the things Which Are Not Seen Are Eternal!"
(2_Corinthians_4:17-18 KJB!)

(5) "For I reckon that The Sufferings of this PRESENT Time
are not worthy to be compared with The Glory which shall be
revealed in us. For the earnest EXPECTation of the creature
WAITeth for the manifestation of the sons of God...

...ourselves also, which have The Firstfruits Of The Spirit,
even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for
The Adoption, to wit, The Redemption Of our body!"
(Romans_8:18, 19, 23 KJB!) Blessed Hope! Amen?

(6) "Therefore being justified by faith, we have Peace with
God through our LORD JESUS CHRIST: By Whom also we
have access by faith into This GRACE Wherein we stand,
and rejoice in Hope of The Glory of God.

And not only so, but we glory {cp} in tribulations also: knowing
that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience;
and experience, Hope: And Hope maketh not ashamed; because
The Love Of God Is Shed Abroad in our hearts By The Holy Ghost
Which Is Given Unto us!"
(Romans_5:1-5 KJB!) {cp 2_Corinthians_11:23-30 KJB!}

(7!) ”And HE That Searcheth the hearts Knoweth What Is The
Mind Of The Spirit, Because HE Maketh Intercession for the
saints According To The Will Of God. Likewise The Spirit Also
Helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray
for as we ought: But The Spirit Itself Maketh Intercession
For us with groanings which cannot be uttered!”
(Romans_8:27-28 KJB!)

(8!) "Blessed Be God, Even The Father Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
The Father Of Mercies, And The God of ALL Comfort; Who Comforteth
us in All our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which
are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves Are
Comforted Of God!" (2_Corinthians_1:3-4 KJB!)

(9!) Please, always be “watching, Patiently waiting And Looking For”
That Blessed HOPE, The Imminent Return Of our LORD To Take us
Home To HEAVEN, In GLORIFICATION! {Thus, ENDING ALL of our
"infirmities, trouble, trials, afflictions, sufferings, And persecutions!”}
(Ephesians_6:18; 1_Corinthians_15:51-57; 2_Corinthians_5:1-9;
2_Thessalonians_4:13-18 KJB!) = WONDERFUL Comfort! Amen?

(10) ”And we know That All things Work Together For Good To
them that love God, to them who Are The Called According To
HIS Purpose!” (Romans_8:28 KJB!)

(11a) Please memorize 2 Timothy_4:8 KJB!:

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,
which The LORD, The Righteous Judge, Shall Give me At That Day:
and not to me only, but unto all them also that love HIS Appearing!"

(11b) Please Prayerfully/Carefully study 1_Corinthians_3:8-15 KJB!,
And "know" that, At "That Day {The JUDGMENT Seat}” Of CHRIST,
In HEAVEN, ALL "good works of preaching The Gospel of GRACE,
studying The Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, and, loving/helping others"
WILL Surely Be "rewarded As gold, silver, And precious stones!"
Amen?

(12) For ALL those who humbly:
Trust CHRIST As their Personal SAVIOUR, The Bible Says:

a): “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of
power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”
(2_Timothy_1:7 KJB!)

b): “Be careful [anxious] for nothing; but in every thing by
prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests
be made known unto God. And the PEACE Of God, Which Passeth
all understanding, Shall Keep your hearts and minds through
CHRIST JESUS.

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are True, whatsoever
things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever
things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever
things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there
be any praise, think on these things.”
(Philippians_4:6-8 KJB!)

Q: God, Under GRACE Tells us to think on Israel's signs/healings/miracles, etc.? OR:
On All of the above "Body Of CHRIST" Infirmities Passages Of Truth?

c): # “Those things, which ye have both learned, and
received, and heard, and seen in me, [Paul!] do: # And
The God Of PEACE Shall Be With you.”
(Philippians_4:9 KJB!)

Conclusion, for ALL of the “just who live BY FAITH {UNseen!}
and NOT by sight" {temporal signs, wonders, etc…}:

"For unto you It Is Given in the Behalf Of CHRIST, not only
to believe on HIM, But Also to suffer for HIS Sake!"
(Philippians_1:29 KJB!) { Good-Bye to continuationism? }
------------------------------
Again, ALL Precious friends, please:
Always Be Very Richly Blessed In The LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!

Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ ↑

I feel you are dodging. I want to see if you will attempt to dodge this example: "Miracle of the Sun".

You wrote, "There are a number of ways of telling whether a miracle is truly from God"

So please tell me if the Miracle of the Sun is truly from God or if it is a false miracle.

According to many [eye] witnesses, after a period of rain, the dark clouds broke and the Sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky. It was said to be significantly duller than normal, and to cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds. The Sun was then reported to have careened towards the Earth before zig-zagging back to its normal position.[18][19] Witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became "suddenly and completely dry, as well as the wet and muddy ground that had been previously soaked because of the rain that had been falling".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

Is lying about people doing the Father's will? Is being a false accuser God's will? Is making broad assumptions that group people together and attributes characteristics to them, and accusing them of sin based on this the Father's will?

Is your saying someone is like satan for saying prophesying is not always predicting the future, then your posting the same idea the Father's will? What kind of fruit are you bearing.

This passage you quote comes after verses warning against false prophets. But Jesus also said, as recorded in the same book, that He would send prophets. So He wasn't saying being a prophet is wrong, or a miracle worker. Jesus did miracles and empowered the apostles to do them as well.

The very next verse says to 'Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another that ye may be healed.' So even in James 5, healing is not the exclusive domain of the elders. People can be healed through the anointing with oil of elders (possibly accompanied by the confession of sin), prayer and confession of sin with one another, through the ministry of evangelists like Philip, or through the laying on of hands of brethren like Ananias in Acts.

I Corinthians 12 was likely written after James 5. If we look at Acts 14-15 and for hints in the epistles, the apostles preached the Gospel and churches formed and started functioning without appointed elders to pastor them. We do not know if Corinth had elders yet or not. If a believer is given the gift of healing and he is not an elder, he should be a good steward of his gift and use it. Peter says to minister gifts one to another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God in I Peter 4.

Where does Tabitha being raised from the dead fit in there? It seems to fit in both of your categories.

I am suspicious of anything that smacks of 'Marian apparitions.' Miracles should point to Christ and not bowing down to statues that are made to represent His mother. But God may do what He wills and I do not know all that was going on there.

Beyond that, I don't care to read up on this. There are probably thousands of such claims. I'm not ministering to someone who is into this stuff, and I have better things to do with my time.

Your questions are irrelevant to the topic. If you can present some ancient or relatively recent historical claim to a miracle to me, and I cannot tell based on whatever evidence you present whether the account is legit or the explanation behind it, that detracts nothing at all from the teaching of scripture that the Spirit gifts certain members of the body of Christ to work miracles.

If you do not believe in miracles because it is difficult for you to tell whether they are from God or not, that would be a very foolish reason for unbelief. Early Christians could have to discern such things, and that did not mean the apostles were not doing miracles. Not believing in miracles out of __fear__ that you might wrongly discern if you were to allow yourself to believe such things as possible is irrational also.

But it could be a side effect. God told Abraham that He would make his name great. It was God's choice to do so. God may choose individuals that He wants to be famous for whatever purpose.

....don’t forget those in deep over their heads in earning reputation by appearances of Godliness and truly think they are his, only God knows a man heart. Where is your heart and why livers of charismatic chaos?

...well, yah! Exactly! Why is it you have to do what you do? What truly motivates your actions? Feeding of self? Or selflessness?

I have heard people talk about how they pray to St. Anthony to find something that is lost and that it works all the time. In fact they boast in a similar way to how you boast.

So how do you know that it wasn't Satan who provided the $400?

Is this your reasoning?

Since Paul preached the Kingdom of God
and Jesus also preached the Kingdom of God

Therefore Jesus and Paul must be preaching the same gospel?

As I suspected YOU ARE RECKLESS!

You are making equal the witness of today's sinners to the witness of God's Holy and perfect Word.

What is it that motivates you to slander others and accuse people of things that you recklessly assume are true, but are not? Is it a lack of knowledge? It should not be after this discussion. Is it a lack of wisdom? A lack of the fear of the Lord?

You are the one being reckless in this thread. I read that convoluted post of yours, asserting things contrary to scripture in your attempt to conform the teaching of scripture to your theory.

Who are "today's sinners.' I posted about a book that referenced surveys of large numbers of Christians, many of whom testified to having experienced miracles. It also dealt with historical references to Christian miracles in past centuries. Are those 'today's sinners'?

Your love of gifts that are not your’s to have is what i am warning you about, the thing God hates the most in worship is the disrespect of the Holy Spirit, and that is all your focus is here, justifying the abuse of things that are not yours to have and claiming the Holy Spirit is in it blessing your actions.

Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed.

I find your attitude toward the gifts of the Spirit, described in scripture, to be disrespectful.

The difference between us is that what I am saying lines up with scriptures. What you have posted in this thread does not. I have shown scriptures that support what I am saying. You haven't. You have accused people of having wrong attitudes without evidence at all.

The Bible says to earnestly desire spiritual gifts... in a chapter that describes the gifts you reject. Do you obey that command of scripture?


Let us look at some other scripture:

I Corinthians 12
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
(NKJV)

The Bible says the Spirit gives to one the word of wisdom... to another the working of miracles....to another different kinds of tongues. You would have me believe that He does not. Which should I believe? You or the Bible?