The Law

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#61
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#61
Blik said:
That is exactly why this post, it is about the love God has for us. That love is expressed in countless ways. God's mercy is so vast it is almost beyond our ability to think of it. And one way that the Lord gives this mercy, love, and forgiveness is through the law.

Living in disobedience to law is to put ourselves out of the reach of God in our lives, it is to separate ourselves from the Lord. Disobedience leads to bondage for to live with sin in our lives is to live in bondage to sin. The law tells us how to draw close to Him in our everyday lives.

We know to draw close to God through God's forgiveness of our sin. After forgiveness, we are to learn to live in the righteousness that forgiveness has earned for us.
Click to expand...
Living in disobedience to the Gospel is what separates us from God, as a matter of fact, there is no other way into the presence of God except by the Blood of Jesus Christ. It is called a New and Living Way. The Law won't get you there.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 (KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Romans 6:17 (KJV) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#62
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
#62
Blik said:
That is exactly why this post, it is about the love God has for us. That love is expressed in countless ways. God's mercy is so vast it is almost beyond our ability to think of it. And one way that the Lord gives this mercy, love, and forgiveness is through the law.

Living in disobedience to law is to put ourselves out of the reach of God in our lives, it is to separate ourselves from the Lord. Disobedience leads to bondage for to live with sin in our lives is to live in bondage to sin. The law tells us how to draw close to Him in our everyday lives.

We know to draw close to God through God's forgiveness of our sin. After forgiveness, we are to learn to live in the righteousness that forgiveness has earned for us.
Click to expand...
No, there is NO MERCY and NO LOVE to us through the Law.

If the Law contained Mercy and/or Love, then Jesus Christ would not have had to come.

Jesus Christ came and fulfilled ALL of the Law that humans were required to obey. IT IS FINISHED!

Now, there are Spiritual Laws of Faith written in our hearts that can ONLY be obeyed in the power of the Holy Spirit.

For example…”an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth…..yet, Jesus preached if one hits you on the cheek, turn and offer him your other cheek…”

Come on! Enough about the written law, we need to be talking about the Spiritual Law that is now written upon our hearts! :love:
 
AandW

AandW

Banned
#63
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
#63
2ndTimothyGroup said:
God put an end to the Law of Moses to prove that Salvation would come by His Promise and not by human works.
Click to expand...

Amen!

But even if God would have chosen not to put an end to the Mosaic Law, no man could ever bypass or trick the Law in order to achieve Eternal Paradise. The Law was only designed to show humans are flawed and sinful. Grace covers it up much better even though we are still just as flawed and sinful.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#64
Mar 18, 2021
4,927
2,849
113
#64
Blik said:
This is teaching that we must thumb our nose at any guidance Jesus gives us, that the entire 119th psalm is not from the Lord.

It is turning the beautiful mercy of God for us so we may live with Him forever completely cleansed of our sin into a travesty. The Lord told us Jesus nailed our sins to the cross, that we are dead to sin, that we are freed from some commandments God gave Moses. We are told there is no sin except willful sin and blasphemy we are not forgiven for. Man has not listened to this, instead man tells us not to listen to the entire spirit of the law that God has so mercifully given us for our guidance.
Click to expand...
You miss the point entirely. Being free from the Law is not a license to sin. It is freedom to live in the knowledge that Lord Jesus lives in us to be our righteousness and holiness. The Law makes us responsible for living in a way that pleases God. Grace makes God responsible. If we fail to keep one commandment, we have broken them all. That's the law. It does not matter why you broke it, or if you were ignorant of the hundreds of commandments that make up the law. Grace says to let Jesus rule your life, lead you and guide you, protect you and provide for you.

Which of God's commandments do you keep? Do you burn your house down if you catch an infectious disease? Do you wash your hands six times after going to the bathroom? Do you go to the temple every year to sacrifice? Oh, you can't. God permitted His holy temple to be destroyed so that no longer can people rely on the Law to save them.

I'll say it again. It is as plain as day that grace is not a license to sin. Anyone who teaches that is a heretic and anyone who believes it is ignorant and foolish. Lord Jesus saves people from their sin, not just from the penalty of sin. The Law does nothing but judge and condemn. Psalm 119 was likely written by David. It was not much use to him when he committed adultery and murder.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#65
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#65
Lafftur said:
No, there is NO MERCY and NO LOVE to us through the Law.

If the Law contained Mercy and/or Love, then Jesus Christ would not have had to come.

Jesus Christ came and fulfilled ALL of the Law that humans were required to obey. IT IS FINISHED!

Now, there are Spiritual Laws of Faith written in our hearts that can ONLY be obeyed in the power of the Holy Spirit.

For example…”an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth…..yet, Jesus preached if one hits you on the cheek, turn and offer him your other cheek…”

Come on! Enough about the written law, we need to be talking about the Spiritual Law that is now written upon our hearts! :love:
Click to expand...
Have you told David and the Lord about your findings?

You are giving the law characteristics it does not have. The law is not sin. The law is not evil, it is holy. Christ came because of sin, and the definition of law is not "sin".

I am speaking of the spiritual law. Do you think this spiritual law has no words to express it?

We are living in the days of the new covenant, when the law is not written in stone but in our hearts. That law in our hearts often is expressed by the law in stone, but if we are alive in Christ, we are alive in the new covenant. So when we say law, it is the law of the spirit. That law of the spirit does not say you must murder, it repeats the law not to murder. If we are alive in Christ, we know that.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#66
Mar 18, 2021
4,927
2,849
113
#66
AandW said:
Amen!

But even if God would have chosen not to put an end to the Mosaic Law, no man could ever bypass or trick the Law in order to achieve Eternal Paradise. The Law was only designed to show humans are flawed and sinful. Grace covers it up much better even though we are still just as flawed and sinful.
Click to expand...
Grace empowers us to live in the way that pleases God. Grace is actually a person - Lord Jesus in the person of His Holy Spirit. If we change the word "save" to "deliver", it makes the meaning clearer. "By grace you are delivered (from the power of sin).....

The word "save" has become Christian code for not going to hell when you die. It's like throwing a lifebelt to a drowning man. You'll keep him afloat but no more. God delivers takes us out of Satan's kingdom and into the kingdom of God. It's like being rescued by a ship, not just staying afloat in the ocean.

Romans 5:10 tells us that we are delivered by the life of Christ. Lord Jesus knows God's will and is well able to keep it. He is well able to empower us to both know and do God's will. When we despair of our own vain attempts to please God (which is human pride at work), we should turn to Lord Jesus and ask Him to live in place of us (this is true humility). It's not enough to say, "I can't" and give up. We need to add, "Lord Jesus you can." Make it clear that you are asking Lord Jesus to live in place of you. In reality, before God, He is doing this already. But to have the experience here on earth, Lord Jesus requires our cooperation and willingness.

I know the difference between striving to meet an impossible standard and resting in the finished work of my Lord Jesus, my Friend and Deliverer. The former is failure, defeat and dissatisfaction. The latter is life and health and peace.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#67
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#67
Gideon300 said:
You miss the point entirely. Being free from the Law is not a license to sin. It is freedom to live in the knowledge that Lord Jesus lives in us to be our righteousness and holiness. The Law makes us responsible for living in a way that pleases God. Grace makes God responsible. If we fail to keep one commandment, we have broken them all. That's the law. It does not matter why you broke it, or if you were ignorant of the hundreds of commandments that make up the law. Grace says to let Jesus rule your life, lead you and guide you, protect you and provide for you..
Click to expand...
How would it be possible to be free from the law, and I take that to mean free from any guidance from the law, and also let Jesus guide you, protect you, and guide you? Jesus is able to free you from any curse of the law, Christ frees you from any death brought about by disobedience to the law, so why would you want to then go back to the sin you have been freed from?

Christ has freed you, blessed you, protected you. Why are you objecting so to following what Christ tells us about living in this life? Christ loves you, Christ would not lead you in a wrong direction. In fact, you would be gaining special blessing in addition to the priceless blessing of salvation. Why tell the Lord no, and fight what God wants to give you?
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#68
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
#68
Blik said:
Have you told David and the Lord about your findings?

You are giving the law characteristics it does not have. The law is not sin. The law is not evil, it is holy. Christ came because of sin, and the definition of law is not "sin".

I am speaking of the spiritual law. Do you think this spiritual law has no words to express it?

We are living in the days of the new covenant, when the law is not written in stone but in our hearts. That law in our hearts often is expressed by the law in stone, but if we are alive in Christ, we are alive in the new covenant. So when we say law, it is the law of the spirit. That law of the spirit does not say you must murder, it repeats the law not to murder. If we are alive in Christ, we know that.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, this is what you are talking about…

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 7:20-8:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 7:20-8:5&version=KJV
 
AandW

AandW

Banned
#69
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
#69
Gideon300 said:
Grace empowers us to live in the way that pleases God. Grace is actually a person - Lord Jesus in the person of His Holy Spirit. If we change the word "save" to "deliver", it makes the meaning clearer. "By grace you are delivered (from the power of sin).....

The word "save" has become Christian code for not going to hell when you die. It's like throwing a lifebelt to a drowning man. You'll keep him afloat but no more. God delivers takes us out of Satan's kingdom and into the kingdom of God. It's like being rescued by a ship, not just staying afloat in the ocean.

Romans 5:10 tells us that we are delivered by the life of Christ. Lord Jesus knows God's will and is well able to keep it. He is well able to empower us to both know and do God's will. When we despair of our own vain attempts to please God (which is human pride at work), we should turn to Lord Jesus and ask Him to live in place of us (this is true humility). It's not enough to say, "I can't" and give up. We need to add, "Lord Jesus you can." Make it clear that you are asking Lord Jesus to live in place of you. In reality, before God, He is doing this already. But to have the experience here on earth, Lord Jesus requires our cooperation and willingness.

I know the difference between striving to meet an impossible standard and resting in the finished work of my Lord Jesus, my Friend and Deliverer. The former is failure, defeat and dissatisfaction. The latter is life and health and peace.
Click to expand...

When the Law was first given unto Moses, it was not being viewed the same by the time Christ dealt with the Pharisees who abused the Law. The original Law given unto Moses was a barometer to show why we need God because we were never able to maintain the Standard of the Law. But for many, God granted Mercy.

Today, God grants Grace, which essentially is stating, it's impossible for any human to be pure under the Law because it's designed to show that nothing we do could be equivalent to the Law. But with Grace, we are still unable to be equal to the Law, But God created a way so we're no longer judged by the Law. And because we are no longer judged by the Law, we know the Mosaic Law has ended outside of what Paul has explained.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#70
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#70
Galatians 3:3 (KJV) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#71
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#71
AandW said:
When the Law was first given unto Moses, it was not being viewed the same by the time Christ dealt with the Pharisees who abused the Law. The original Law given unto Moses was a barometer to show why we need God because we were never able to maintain the Standard of the Law. But for many, God granted Mercy.

Today, God grants Grace, which essentially is stating, it's impossible for any human to be pure under the Law because it's designed to show that nothing we do could be equivalent to the Law. But with Grace, we are still unable to be equal to the Law, But God created a way so we're no longer judged by the Law. And because we are no longer judged by the Law, we know the Mosaic Law has ended outside of what Paul has explained.
Click to expand...
It is true that we are not judged for salvation by our works, but God will judge us by our works.
“I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds.” Jeremiah 17:10 NASB

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” Revelation 22:12 NKJV

Also to You, O Lord, belongs mercy;
For You render to each one according to his work. Psalms 62:12 NKJV
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#72
Feb 20, 2021
5,449
1,858
113
#72
AandW said:
Amen!

But even if God would have chosen not to put an end to the Mosaic Law, no man could ever bypass or trick the Law in order to achieve Eternal Paradise. The Law was only designed to show humans are flawed and sinful. Grace covers it up much better even though we are still just as flawed and sinful.
Click to expand...
Nice. I would add the following:

Romans 3:1-31 shows that the Law was given with the purpose of not allowing people to have excuses. Prior to the Law of Moses, when there was no Law, the people had a legitimate excuse, thus their sins were not charged against them. But after the Law of Moses, no longer was a person able to have an excuse....and this for the entire world to see and recognize our guilt of wrongdoing.
 
AandW

AandW

Banned
#73
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
#73
Blik said:
It is true that we are not judged for salvation by our works, but God will judge us by our works.
“I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds.” Jeremiah 17:10 NASB

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” Revelation 22:12 NKJV

Also to You, O Lord, belongs mercy;
For You render to each one according to his work. Psalms 62:12 NKJV
Click to expand...
I also prefer to look at this way.
Someone approaches you in need and asks for money.
Here is a prime opportunity given to us by God Himself to give money and to tell this person God loves them and cares for them.

Now, it is true that we could just ignore the person and go on with our life and we will still be saved.
But that Miracle we want or that thing we've been asking God for can be determined on whether we give that money and share to that person that God loves them.

So even though we're not being judged towards our Salvation, we are being judged by what God wants to give us and what we're willing to do for God in order to get what we want.
 
AandW

AandW

Banned
#74
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
#74
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Nice. I would add the following:

Romans 3:1-31 shows that the Law was given with the purpose of not allowing people to have excuses. Prior to the Law of Moses, when there was no Law, the people had a legitimate excuse, thus their sins were not charged against them. But after the Law of Moses, no longer was a person able to have an excuse....and this for the entire world to see and recognize our guilt of wrongdoing.
Click to expand...
Amen!
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#75
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#75
crossnote said:
Galatians 3:3 (KJV) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Click to expand...
We are only made perfect though Christ, not by law or the flesh. But the Lord tells us what to do with the saved, clean person God has created, God does not want us to willingly go back to the sin God has eliminated from our life. We are told to repent, we cannot repent of something we know nothing about. We need to know what we are repenting of.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#76
Mar 21, 2015
3,564
1,065
113
Australia
#76
In a lawless world, nothing would condemn us so every one would be worthy of heaven.

no law = no sin

no sin = no need for Jesus

Jesus came to save us from sin. Not save us in sin but from sin.

We are saved by faith in Jesus, faith in His blood (justification), Faith in His power to change (sanctification), and faith in his coming, (Glorification).

our effort to keep the law will not save us, because it is not enough by Gods standards or heavens standard.

have all of the laws vanished, was every law done away with? Are there any laws today that God wants us to obey?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#77
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#77
posthuman said:
@Blik nor have i, and i feel blessed because of having met you.
keep lifting up Christ, and loving His law :)
Click to expand...
It wasn't a compliment.
John 1:17

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#78
Mar 21, 2015
3,564
1,065
113
Australia
#78
crossnote said:
Actually...

1 John 4:19 (KJV) We love him, because he first loved us.
Click to expand...
John 14:15 (If ye love me, keep my commandments.) , is not questioning why you love God it is showing what you should do as a result of loving Him.

I love Him because He first loved me and i aim to keep His commandments as a result. Not to be saved but because i am saved. Because Jesus loves me i am motivated to obey his law. i am not trying to gain salvation i'm keeping the law because i love Jesus and delight in the law of love.
Psa_119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
Psa_119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#79
Mar 21, 2015
3,564
1,065
113
Australia
#79
throughfaith said:
It wasn't a compliment.
John 1:17

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
Click to expand...
can you understand that we do not think that salvation comes by the law? No one has said that the law saves.

Can you comprehend the simple equation?......

Jesus and His love, Grace, and blood/ life. = our Love for Him, our faith in Him, = keeping the law, obeying Him.

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#80
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#80
TMS said:
can you understand that we do not think that salvation comes by the law? No one has said that the law saves.

Can you comprehend the simple equation?......

Jesus and His love, Grace, and blood/ life. = our Love for Him, our faith in Him, = keeping the law, obeying Him.

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Click to expand...
Each verse you just quoted that pertains to eternal life is to Israel . Like Matthew 19 . Thats why you will not see a verse from Paul that says such a thing . Go find one thats written to the body of Christ. Matt 19 .17 . Contradicts what your saying .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.