"I will destroy man": the judgments which are to come

Many don’t repent cause God chooses who repents and who gets to be saved. He also irresistably draws to Him those He chooses no matter where they are or who they are. As you know most humans in the world doesn’t even have mental knowledge of Christianity so how can they be at fault?

Romans 1:20 ~ they are without excuse.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since
what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal
power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God,
they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking
became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If it was plain to everyone there would be no conflict in the world. There would be no debate. As a kid I had extreme mental illness and I never had any conscious thought or idea about God or a god who He was etc. It was only me being exposed to people who taught about religions that I even first thought about an almighty being. Much less specifics of what He wants from me. Most people I know sincerely want God if He is real and if He loves. But the world has to guess by faith what is true as pertains to God or educated guess from knowledge they are exposed to.

The Bible says God tho chooses anyways who gets saved. And that those chosen He won’t ever let be lost.

No. The Bible offers salvation to WHOSOEVER will receive it.

That whosoever contradicts Jesus words and must align. It must be whosoever out of the world that God chose and granted repentance, power to live acceptably holy, the holy spirit, and faith that is given by Him. Many places in bible that uses words that in transliteration English means - anyone, all, etc but in reality it is not meaning how we usually interpret those words. I can give examples.

John 6:65
Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Matthew 11:27
no one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses.

John 6:44
No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come.

John15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you.

John 5:21
in the same way the Son gives life to those he wants to.

John 17:6
I have revealed Your name to those You have chosen for Me out of the world.

Acts 13:48
and all who God APPOINTED for eternal life believed.

The problem falls squarely on man being unwilling to acknowledge a divine omnipotent sovereign Being. Man chooses instead to make an idol of his intelligence and proclaim himself sovereign of his life, otherwise known as pride, and written about extensively in Scripture starting in the first few chapters of the good Book. And, wow! Even when God reveals Himself, people still run the other direction and rebel... doing evil in the sight of the Lord. Not everyone, but this same problem has happened over and over and over again and is also written about extensively in Scripture. What you say about most people sincerely wanting God? Hmmm, that is not God's understanding.

The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who
seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Hello Nehemiah,

Actually, those events do not fall under the 7th seal, but is preparatory for the trumpet judgments which follow, i.e. The 7th seal leads into the trumpets which are the next set of judgements. After the trumpet judgements then as you already know, comes the next set of judgments, which of course are the bowls.

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When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven trumpets.

Then another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, rose up before God from the hand of the angel.

Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
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Also, I don't know why you take this stand, but seals 1 thru 6 also belong to God's wrath. It is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals and is therefore responsible for the resulting fatalities. They are three sets of seven plagues of wrath which should not be divided as some being non-wrath and others being wrath.

1st Seal = Rider on the white horse representing the emergence of the antichrist

2nd Seal = Peace taken from the earth so that mankind kills each other

3rd Seal = World-wide famine

4th Seal = Death and Hades personified, are given authority to kill a fourth of the earths population

5th Seal = Martyrs under the altar in heaven. No direct fatalities at that time

6th Seal
* Sun darkened, Moon turned to the color of blood, stars (meteorites/asteroids) hitting the earths atmosphere.

* Sky being rolled back like a scroll so that God can be seen in the heavenly realm which causes inhabitants to flee to the mountains and the rocks desiring them to fall on them in order to hide them from the face of the One who sits on the throne.

* The announcement of the fulness of God's wrath which includes the seals that will have already taken place, as well as the trumpets and bowl judgments which are to follow.

Why do you exclude the seals 1 thru 6 as being God's wrath?

Seal 6 events actually come after the 7th seal judgments. But seals 1-5 were "the beginning of sorrows" as noted in the Olivet Discourse.
You said this, but you should note this: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. (Rev 8:1,2). So what we have is this:

Seventh Seal -- Trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 (Tribulation)
Seventh Trumpet -- Vials/Bowls 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 (Great Tribulation)
Sixth Seal: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:29)

Magenta,

I am telling you in my experience, of most people I know and have discussed, that with the ability of how they relation with humans, they want that with God. If God loves them they need to interact with Him so that they can have a relationship and by His guiding and spirit talking to them they would love to live for Him. Just by simple observation no matter if man doesn’t understand things correct there being billion Christians and millions of churches you think they do that not having desire to know God?

Do you think people can really have a relationship with God just through a book? First by man’s own intellect hardly anyone can agree on the Bible’s very contradictory at times and complex details. And many on earth can’t read. Humans have extreme variations of mental ability required to read and discern info especially as complex as the Bible. And did you know that most of human history no one had bibles? Only past few hundred years did individuals have Bible. And the original KJV Bible had more books inside that were accepted as truth and that the early christians accepted as true.

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience

Does it say there that every human put himself in sin or that God imprisoned man in sin?

Aside from that God chooses individuals and gives the Holy Spirit so that they can be like Him and want Him in the way that He accepts. If it doesn’t come from Him He doesn’t accept it even if in our natural ways just like people wanting relationships with others but that desire they think towards God.

Tell me if a man thinks and desires in his mind “ya know, like I know Jerry and we are friends, if God is real I want to know Him too and if He desire me I am willing to follow”. And if they start searching for answers is that desiring to know God amd seeking God or not?

You actually believe that the 6th seal comes after the 7th seal, putting them out of sequence? Also, the phrase "beginning of sorrows" does not = not God's wrath. The fact is that it is the Lamb/Jesus who will be opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and followed by the bowl judgments, all belonging to God's wrath.

There is a reason that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are numbered, which is that they take place in chronological order. When you take them out of sequence you're on your way to error.

The seven sealed scroll is set up so that they have to be opened in order. The scroll has seven seals on it which are attached to the parchment. When breaking the first seal off of the parchment, it allows you to fold the scroll back until it comes to the second seal which is still adhering to the parchment. Therefore, once that seal is broken only what is written on that part of the scroll can be read. It is the same for all of the seals. That said, you cannot open say, the 3rd seal first without ripping up the information in the surrounding seals. They have to be opened in order 1 thru 7. When you start taking them out of chronological order such as putting the first six seals as taking place after the 7th seal, you're just making a mess of the order that God put them in.

You said this, but you should note this: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. (Rev 8:1,2). So what we have is this:

Seventh Seal -- Trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 (Tribulation)[/quote]

No! What we have is seals 1 thru 7 taking place followed by the seven angels who are given their seven trumpets to start the next set of judgments. The 7th seal is preparatory for the trumpet judgments.


[quoteSeventh Trumpet -- Vials/Bowls 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 (Great Tribulation)
Sixth Seal: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:29)[/QUOTE]

It is paramount to understand that the sun and moon being darkened in Matt.24:29 is not the same event as the 6th seal. Because Matt.24:29 takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth and therefore not allowing any room for the 7th seal, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments. Matt.24:29 and the 6th seal (though similar sounding), are two separate events. The 6th seal takes place during the first 3 1/2 years, where Matt.24:29 takes place as Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age which is at the end of the seven years. Though similar sounding, they are not the same events.

You're trying to make it sound like the bible paints a picture of god in heaven throwing darts at a dartboard with people's names on it, or sitting at the holy pottery wheel, all like "ugh, look at this ugly vessel, I can't wait to smash it and throw it back in the furnace".

But anybody that hungers and thirsts after righteousness will be filled. And yeah... alot people DO NOT care about what is right, and only want to live for themselves, and reject the idea of the existence of god, and wouldn't say a word of prayer or lift a finger to figure out what god wants.
And just because nobody can take you out of god's hands by force, doesn't mean he won't let you step right out of his hand if you want to.
If we lived in such a deterministic universe, then why bother coming on the forum? Is it your destiny?

Yes truly we should be preparing for troubling times. We don’t know when or even if there will be a “rapture”. I have my end of the world supply kit all packed and ready to go. Hopefully I won’t be around to use it. The most important item I’m throwing in will be a Bible with passages highlighted. That way if someone else finds it they will find something to preserve their body…and soul.

I think once you read this it will make more sense. It is true God calls some to be saved and God hardens some people’s hearts to not be saved. It doesn’t mean everyone who is saved or not was exclusively orchestrated by God. I think there is so much we just don’t understand. From what we do understand, if God was going to pick and choose all He would save then much of His word is irrelevant. It makes more sense that some are chosen like when God called Abraham, Moses, the Judges and the Prophets. Christ called the Twelve. Them He foreknew, justified and glorified. Most are just lost sheep finding a Shepherd. Their roles are not overly significant in His plan. They are just extras on set.