Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
There are 3 NT books where all Heretics live........... notice this as you deal with more.

1. Hebrews

2. James

3. Matthew.


Misapplying Hebrews 10 has destroyed the faith of more believers than a world full of Atheists.
The book of Hebrews...........written by Paul........is not solely aimed, doctrinally, at the born again.
In this book, you find Paul also dealing with LOST >HEBREW< CHRIST REJECTORS.

WE often think of Paul as "that guy who wrote all those epistles", but the reality is, he was a burning hot soul afire for Christ.
He was a PREACHER who was preaching the Gospel all the time.....

And these Unsaved JEWS in Hebrews Chapter 10, are told that "if you sin willfully"....(reject Christ), then you have done "despite to the spirit of Grace"... (you have spit on it).....>"you have trodden underfoot the blood atonement".....( you have ground your heel into the face of God).

So, these unsaved Jews, are dealt with again, in Acts 28, the last 10 verses.

It was after this, that Paul said.... (paraphrase)......"ok, im done with you hateful hate filled Christ rejecting HEBREWS.. (unsaved Jews), im taking the Gospel to the GENTILES, and they will HEAR IT".
And so, there goes your Apostle to the Gentiles, getting into his real ministry ..

Also, if you preach, or teach, or do Sunday School class, or you are trying to show someone online what the unpardonable SIN is all about......
Then take them to Hebrews 10:26.....right in there, as you see Hebrews (jews) committing it.
They are rejecting forgiveness, as found in the Cross, by rejecting their Messiah, and that is how you commit that sin.
Its simply to be an unbeliever who rejects Christ.

Here is the thing that they wont tell you in church..........It this.........all unbelievers are committing the unpardonable sin right now.
All unbelievers are already damned......they are just waiting to die and hit the Judgement.
This is .......John 3:36.
See, as long as you are a Christ Rejector, you are committing the unpardonable sin, waiting to die.
That is a terrible situation, and that is why God wants us to lead them to the Cross and get them out of that damnation.

And here is one more for your class.

A person goes to hell, not for a lifetime of sinning, but rather for never being pardoned, never being forgiven, just ONE SIN.
A person goes to hell for being a CHRIST REJECTOR........not for being a murderer, or a child molester, as those are just sin., and all sin can be forgiven and is forgiven by the BLOOD of Jesus, except for one.......its the sin of rejecting the Blood.....= .Christ Rejection.
See.....God can't forgive you, if you reject the forgiveness, (the blood of Jesus)......so therefore you die having committed the ONE unpardonable sin, and that is why a person goes to Hell than the lake of fire.
Just for committing the one sin, the unpardonable sin......CHRIST REJECTION.. (never being born again) is the proof you committed it.
he who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned already, Because they have no believed.

He paid for sin on the cross..
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Lol listen guys...

This doesn't work the way you think. You don't get to ignore passages that don't fit your beliefs or misrepresent passages so they fit your doctrine.

Lol doesn't matter how many names you call me, or what you attempt to accuse me of. The words say what the words say.

We can take any passage from Paul's letters and I guarantee you that if we read long enough and not cherry pick he supports the law and Messiah.

Messiah = salvation
Law (commandments) = obedience

It's always those two requirements upon the saints. First salvation through faith...then obedience through good work...until glory.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Lol listen guys...

This doesn't work the way you think. You don't get to ignore passages that don't fit your beliefs or misrepresent passages so they fit your doctrine.

Lol doesn't matter how many names you call me, or what you attempt to accuse me of. The words say what the words say.

We can take any passage from Paul's letters and I guarantee you that if we read long enough and not cherry pick he supports the law and Messiah.

Messiah = salvation
Law (commandments) = obedience

It's always those two requirements upon the saints. First salvation through faith...then obedience through good work...until glory.
Listen sir

It does not work the way you think, you don't get to twist passages to fit your belief, and ignore the rest of scripture.

it does not matter what you think. The word is a cohesive document, Gods love letter to mankind. It must come as a whole. Not picked apart anyway you want it by picking a verse or verses out of context to get the bible to support your believe system.

If anyone is cherry picking here my friend it is you.

Messiah = salvation

law equals ministers of death as a schoolmaster to lead you to Christ.

Law of love = obedience. and all the law and prophets are fulfilled in this law
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The book of Hebrews explains that there is a new priesthood necessitating a change to the law. So where those specific verses written to us...or no?
I agree ,bible speak to whoever read and most of the Bible reader are born again unless the verse specifically say that it for non Christian
most non Christian. Not read bible so effectively bible speak to born again
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree ,bible speak to whoever read and most of the Bible reader are born again unless the verse specifically say that it for non Christian
most non Christian. Not read bible so effectively bible speak to born again
Paul in gal 3 told us that those who teach a different gospel are to be accursed.

He did not say it was to non christian.

John said whoever denys christ was never of us. He did not say it was to non christian.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No.

You cant go there dude.

You keep saying as that verse says, THEY WILL NOT MAKE IT.

Either they will or they will not. You can't have it it both ways. Either you are interpreting that passage wrong,e or they are not going to heaven. There is no other option. That passage does not say UNLESS they repent.
Friend Bible not contradict itself
Another verse say
Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool
isiah 1:18
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Paul in gal 3 told us that those who teach a different gospel are to be accursed.

He did not say it was to non christian.

John said whoever denys christ was never of us. He did not say it was to non christian.
That mean he talk to who ever listen or read Christian or not it mean Christian may fall and commit murder or deny like Peter deny jesus
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Friend Bible not contradict itself
Another verse say
Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool
isiah 1:18
Yet you are making it contradict

you push a verse that says no murderer will get to heavan, then when you are shown some murders, you contradict and say well yeah they will

you can’t have it both ways
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That mean he talk to who ever listen or read Christian or not it mean Christian may fall and commit murder or deny like Peter deny jesus
It means we look at the passage to see who any author is directing something to. He is not going to always tell us they are believers or unbelievers, he does not have to we can determine ourselves,
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Listen sir

It does not work the way you think, you don't get to twist passages to fit your belief, and ignore the rest of scripture.

it does not matter what you think. The word is a cohesive document, Gods love letter to mankind. It must come as a whole. Not picked apart anyway you want it by picking a verse or verses out of context to get the bible to support your believe system.

If anyone is cherry picking here my friend it is you.

Messiah = salvation

law equals ministers of death as a schoolmaster to lead you to Christ.

Law of love = obedience. and all the law and prophets are fulfilled in this law
Oh Hi! Couldn't resist huh?

ok, please explain the following passages to me. I'm going to post verbatim without any side commentary so there's no danger of twisting. Please tell me what it means. Most likely you'll decline by saying something like "I'm not going to play your game" and then disappear as usual.


Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


What does this mean?
Who are the saints?
Why isn't the passage: keep the law of love and the faith of Jesus? OR keep Jesus' commandments and faith of Jesus?
What are the commandments of God?


Romans 2:3-16 [Paul's complete thought on the matter, so there's no threat of cherry-picking]
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 [For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another]

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


What's this mean?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Here's the same passage in NIV which is accurate in this specific portion of scripture, so it's safe to post.

Romans 2:3-16 NIV
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 [ndeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.] 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yet you are making it contradict

you push a verse that says no murderer will get to heavan, then when you are shown some murders, you contradict and say well yeah they will

you can’t have it both ways
If repent
I am not contracdic at all
I am only show the verse
Son go to hell it what verse say
There is forgiveness if repent that verse basically say
Where the contradiction
If you say no need repent than show me the verse
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
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The book of Hebrews explains that there is a new priesthood necessitating a change to the law. So where those specific verses written to us...or no?
What laws changed? How was it changed?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh Hi! Couldn't resist huh?
Resist exposing you as the legalist you are? No. Its too easy to pass up!

ok, please explain the following passages to me. I'm going to post verbatim without any side commentary so there's no danger of twisting. Please tell me what it means. Most likely you'll decline by saying something like "I'm not going to play your game" and then disappear as usual.


Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


What does this mean?
It means GODS people who ARE born again DO THIS.. (Not might do this)
Who are the saints?
those born of God
Why isn't the passage: keep the law of love and the faith of Jesus? OR keep Jesus' commandments and faith of Jesus?
Because it does not have to. Those who follow the law of love DO THESE THINGS, Or do you think Jesus lied when he said ALL the law and prophets are in the law of Love?
What are the commandments of God?
To love the lord your God with All your heart mind and soul. and to love your neighbor as yourself. IN THIS IS ALL THE LAW AND PROPHETS. If we obey this law WE WILL NEVER BREAK A COMMAND. and in doing so. WILL KEEP THE COMMANDS OF GOD

Romans 2:3-16 [Paul's complete thought on the matter, so there's no threat of cherry-picking]
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 [For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another]

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


What's this mean?
who are those who do not obey the truth? NON BELIEVERS are they saved? NO. As john said, whoever sins has never seen or known God

Who are those who do good. BELIEVERS. They ALL are saved. As john said, He who is born of God does not sin..


It is sad that you refuse to acknowledge the power of God to change the lives of those who are his, as he PROMISED HE WOULD!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If repent
I am not contracdic at all
I am only show the verse
Son go to hell it what verse say
There is forgiveness if repent that verse basically say
Where the contradiction
If you say no need repent than show me the verse
the passage you keep pushing does not say UNLESS THEY REPENT!

So you need to stop pushing that passage at us. Because even YOU AGREE. it does not mean ALL murderers! And we have said, and you tell us we deny the word.

Thats why people stop talking to you!
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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What laws changed? How was it changed?
It specifically ties to the priesthood.

Those rites and cleansing (blood) rituals that were required of the priests to do - as a memorial - for cleansing sins (whenever the commandments were broken) and for justification were no longer valid to do because the true High Priest has come to perform the true work of cleansing. That section of the law changed. Amended if you will. The law was amended, not ended (just like the US constitution wasn't ended but amended to account for the change in the USA's new situation). Those SAME rites and rituals are CONTINUED by the Messiah in heaven right now (whenever the commandment are broken by us).

So now, all we need to do is go to the throne and ask for forgiveness of those sins and for help to do better next time, but our task remains the same...to not break the law; to obey the commandments.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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the passage you keep pushing does not say UNLESS THEY REPENT!

So you need to stop pushing that passage at us. Because even YOU AGREE. it does not mean ALL murderers! And we have said, and you tell us we deny the word.

Thats why people stop talking to you!
Act 3:19

Version



19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Act 3:19

Version



19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
A child of God HAS repented.

Its WHY they were born again.

You have been told this so many times by so many people. But you keep calling us liars,.

Will you finally admit we are right?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
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It means GODS people who ARE born again DO THIS.. (Not might do this)
You don't know what patience or endurance means then.

Because it does not have to. Those who follow the law of love DO THESE THINGS, Or do you think Jesus lied when he said ALL the law and prophets are in the law of Love?
So then what you're saying is you love God so much as to obey the 7th day Sabbath and High Sabbath feast days? Because that's a commandment. Believers automatically DO THIS? Or do you make an excuse as to why God loves YOU enough that you don't need to do those things?

To love the lord your God with All your heart mind and soul. and to love your neighbor as yourself. IN THIS IS ALL THE LAW AND PROPHETS. If we obey this law WE WILL NEVER BREAK A COMMAND. and in doing so. WILL KEEP THE COMMANDS OF GOD
Is loving God with all your everything an emotional experience or does it mean you actually need to DO certain things? Do you love God so much to inconvenience yourself to obey the 7th day Sabbath?

who are those who do not obey the truth? NON BELIEVERS are they saved? NO. As john said, whoever sins has never seen or known God

Who are those who do good. BELIEVERS. They ALL are saved. As john said, He who is born of God does not sin..

It is sad that you refuse to acknowledge the power of God to change the lives of those who are his, as he PROMISED HE WOULD!
You didn't explain the passage. You gave a commentary. Please explain the passage.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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What if you only murdered once? How do you repent?
Repentance is inside it is induced by acknowledgement of ones sin and this realization produces godly sorrow within and leads to the works of repentance being obedience.

repentance begins in the heart when we realize and acknowledge what we have done

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember that man is made in Gods image so for the church this translates

Paul made known a sin among the church the sinner and the church for approving and flirting in it had done wrong paul rebuked then harshly in the first letter pointing out how wrong the situation was and then later he wrote another letter regarding the operation of repentance

“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭

David being the source of the sire mercies of David is the prime example he had committed adultery with Uriah the hittites wife and impregnated her , then to cover his transgression he went in a deception binge and it didn’t work so he eventually to cover his guilt ordered uriah a good and godly mans death.

for a time David Hod his sin and didn’t acknowledge it so there was no source of repentance of we refuse our guilt we can never feel the godly sorrow that induces repentance

“Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬

if we pretend we didn’t sin , it’s going to crush us with God but if we turn and acknowledge our sins we’re going to feel sorrow because of the realization of our own sin against God. And that sorrow of sin is the path to repentance we can’t get it unless we acknowledge the truth in our hearts regarding our own misdeeds