Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

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Aaron56

Aaron56

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Tinkerbell725 said:
Satan and the fallen angels were created as eternal beings. That is why there is a need for an everlasting fire as a place for them in the end. The sinners will also transform like Satan at the second resurrection and will have their place at the lake of fire as mentioned in Revelation.
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No, the angels are not eternal. They were created. They were created to serve the House of God (including the sons of God). The rebellious angels will be destroyed in the lake of fire along with those whose names are not in the Book of Life.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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Aaron56 said:
Your questions are sincere. But your perceptions Jesus' teachings are not mine.

I see The Lord born under the Law, speaking to a people who thought they were special because of their association with Abraham and their religious piety. We was making it very clear that one had to be spiritually changed in order to be numbered among God's sons. He demonstrated this reality, of being the Son of God, in the way that He lived.
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I do agree with this concept you stated.

But He also spoke of and warned of eternal punishment, pretty much directly identical to how Revelation speaks of it.

Seems to me, if he says that it is everlasting, and then it is also explained this way in Revelation, then that is exactly how it is going to be.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

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Aaron56 said:
No, the angels are not eternal. They were created. They were created to serve the House of God (including the sons of God). The rebellious angels will be destroyed in the lake of fire along with those whose names are not in the Book of Life.
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Are angels spirits? Do spirits die? You said spirits don't die. They come back to the God. Will Satan ever come back to God?
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

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Magenta said:
I do not see this in Scripture... where is it? :unsure:
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But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV


But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV


That verse was what I meant. If the believers have their transformation in the first ressurrection. The sinners will also have theirs in the second ressurrection to prepare them for their eternity too. How else will they endure the eternal torment if they don't transform.
 
Aaron56

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The angels are spirit beings, that is, they exist in the spiritual realm. But they are not of the same substance of God, otherwise God would be their Father. But the angels are not the sons of God. They have no legal claim to the throne of God as heirs of God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Tinkerbell725 said:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV

That verse was what I meant. If the believers have their transformation in the first ressurrection. The sinners will also have theirs in the second ressurrection to prepare them for their eternity too. How else will they endure the eternal torment if they don't transform.
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I just do not see anything suggesting the lost are transformed into resembling Satan.

It seems to be something you are adding/assuming.

On the other hand it is clearly articulated that the saved are transformed
and put on life/immortality/incorruptibility through faith in Christ.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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1ofthem said:
I do agree with this concept you stated.

But He also spoke of and warned of eternal punishment, pretty much directly identical to how Revelation speaks of it.

Seems to me, if he says that it is everlasting, and then it is also explained this way in Revelation, then that is exactly how it is going to be.
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You are correct that it is "everlasting" but only to the end of the age.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

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Magenta said:
I just do not see anything suggesting the lost are transformed into resembling Satan.

It seems to be something you are adding/assuming.

On the other hand it is clearly articulated that the saved are transformed
and put on life/immortality/incorruptibility through faith in Christ.
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Yes I agree it is clear that the saved will transform to be incorruptible. But it is also clear that the unsaved will be tormented forever day and night without rest, which means they will not cease to exist. Rest means to stop existing.
 
Aaron56

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Tinkerbell725 said:
Yes I agree it is clear that the saved will transform to be incorruptible. But it is also clear that the unsaved will be tormented forever day and night without rest, which means they will not cease to exist. Rest means to stop existing.
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No, it means they will have no rest. This is not the lake of fire. The torment coming is the bowls of wrath about to be poured out on the earth. I mean, it literally says “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God..." in Revelation 14:10 and then a little later in the book it says "Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.” Revelation 15:7-8
 
G

glen55

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Aaron56 said:
No, the angels are not eternal. They were created. They were created to serve the House of God (including the sons of God). The rebellious angels will be destroyed in the lake of fire along with those whose names are not in the Book of Life.
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Saul a name all man reflect till they wake up from inside them true selves.

We are living in a world that is like a play and some, seem from birth to be cast in a difficult role, and yet you tell him that God is Infinite Love. But he is the playwright and the casting director, for this is a play. As Shakespeare says –

“All the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players. We have our exits and our entrances and one man in his time plays many parts.”​
But that “time” is not three-score and ten; it is the time it takes to awaken that man, the perfect actor, or God.
 
Kidron

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Aaron56 said:
The spirit of God does not need to be born again. It was never created in the first place. His spirit is eternal, without end or beginning. Our souls are not eternal, neither are our bodies.
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So you are a "no-Heller"?

Our bodies are "dead because of sin", but our Spirit is eternal.
How do you know?
Because it came from God.

IN Genesis, ... God created Adam , but this was just the body.
Then God "breathed into him".....this is God putting HIS Spirit into Adam, that caused Him to become "living".....alive.
The body is just the House. The Spirit that lives in the body, is the LIFE.
This never dies., as its created by God, and does not cease to exist.
What happens is........if its not born again, then it does not rejoin God, it just remains........and it ends up in the place that was never created for man.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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Kidron said:
Are you a "no-heller"?
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No, are you a person who believes the unsaved receive eternal life?


Life is eternal, as the spirit in your body, is never going to die.
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Not going to die? Hmmm, where have I heard that lie before?

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Being born 2x, is why you have Eternal life.
Being born only once is why you have 2nd death.
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Except you are promoting that they will live and not die.

IN both cases, the Spirit continues, but in only one case is the end result not a eternal torment.
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Wrong. The spirits of unsaved will die.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Kidron said:
So you are a "no-Heller"?

Our bodies are "dead because of sin", but our Spirit is eternal.
How do you know?
Because it came from God.

IN Genesis, ... God created Adam , but this was just the body.
Then God "breathed into him".....this is God putting HIS Spirit into Adam, that caused Him to become "living".....alive.
The body is just the House. The Spirit that lives in the body, is the LIFE.
This never dies., as its created by God, and does not cease to exist.
What happens is........if its not born again, then it does not rejoin God, it just remains........and it ends up in the place that was never created for man.
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I don't understand how one asks a question and then continues on without receiving the answer.

No. Hell is real. The scripture says Death and Hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. There, along with the people who worshiped the beast, they will be utterly destroyed.
 
T

TheLearner

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Pilgrimshope said:
yes a lot of good scripture I was pointing towards this part

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭24:15‬ ‭
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

some to everlasting life,

and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭K

some will interpret everlasting shame and contempt I suppose some take this other ways than I to me it’s not saying they are raised for no reason or just end afterwards but they are raised for the intent of shame and everlasting contempt

everyone dies in the flesh and everyone has to face Eternal judgement of thier spirit it’s the two appointments men have from birth

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, ( flesh )

but after this the judgment:”( spirit )

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The post here was about why people believe in the doctrine of eternal torment and fire and I was just trying to state and show why I think many believe that
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Friend I did not see, "there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.” in Isaiah 1, what did I miss there? From the context of Isaiah 1 it was not about the end times resurrection.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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Aaron56 said:
You are correct that it is "everlasting" but only to the end of the age.
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Does it say this in scripture?

It also refers to it as "eternal" punishment.

Sorry if I sound like a 3 year old with all the questions, but I really am trying to see how you are coming to this conclusion.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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ewq1938 said:
Spirits are not eternal. Only God is eternal.
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It seems it is believed their spirit is returned to them post resurrection which allows them to transform and become like Satan. Jesus said nothing about that. He simply said they were as their father, the devil: liars and murderers from the beginning. They already were as their father the devil in their character, not in their immortality. Is Satan immortal? Again, and it has been said many times, Scripture affirms that God alone is immortal. Why people keep contradicting this I do not know or pretend to understand. Same as people saying that anything God creates last forever. Eh??? Where is this ever stated in the Bible??? No, is is stated that things pass away and will be no more not even remembered. Thank you for your contributions :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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1ofthem said:
Does it say this in scripture?

It also refers to it as "eternal" punishment.

Sorry if I sound like a 3 year old with all the questions, but I really am trying to see how you are coming to this conclusion.
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Please see posts 341, 348, & 349 :) (Links provided in page # :D)
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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ewq1938 said:
Wrong. The spirits of unsaved will die.
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The spirits of the unsaved are already considered dead, though, right. Yet, they still exist. Even if the body is still alive, an unbelievers spirit is still dead, right.

Or am I missing something?
 
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